The politics of ethanol and drought

[MillCreek]

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/food/2012/07/drought_and_ethanol_how_congress_mandates_and_the_epa_s_new_policy_are_hurting_americans_.html

A really interesting article on drought, crop prices and the ethanol mandate.

[SADShooter]

I'll never endorse their methods, but stuff like this makes me less derisive of WTO anarcho-protesters, et al. when it seems like there really must be some secret cabal behind circular processes which make no sense or defy rational explanation.

[bedlamite]

A rational explanation is very simple if you follow the money. Cargil, Monsanto, etc. sell the corn seed and herbicide to the farmers, and collect subsidies to convert corn to ethanol and make a ton of money. They lined the pockets of congrescritters and sold it to Congress/EPA as energy independence and pollution control, even though it's really neither. Farmers like getting inflated prices for every bushel they can produce, and the left thinks it's "green". We get stuck with the bill and crap fuel. Fortunately people are waking up, the subsidies ran out at the end of '11, and there are now ethanol plants sitting idle.

[Waitone]

Your analysis fails to mention banks and assorted financial institutions who get a nice stream of interest payments for loaning the money.

Institutionalized corruptions.

[stevelyn]

That means that nearly 37 percent of this year’s corn crop, which Lapp estimates to amount to about 11.6 billion bushels, will be diverted into ethanol production.

Yes. And I just happen to have a jug of it. 

http://www.moonshine.com/the-goods.php


Actually that's about the only good use for corn outside animal feed and tortillas. Ethanol worthless as a motor fuel and costs more in energy expenditure than what you can get in return.

[Tallpine]

Ethanol worthless as a motor fuel and costs more in energy expenditure than what you can get in return.

Worse than that even - 10% ethanol yields about 20% lower mpg 

[brimic]

The whole ethanol fuel reasoning is junk science based off other junk science.
MTBE used to be added for a cleaner burn (oxygenate), since the stuff polluted ground water, the lefties looked to ethanol because it happened to have oxygen in its molecule. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way- you might as well add water to your gasoline because it has a much higher molar Oxygen content.

[Ben]

I read this morning that though Obama is throwing millions in aid to farmers on the table due to drought and reduced corn production, he's so far refusing the congressional request to temporarily relax Ethanol requirements for gasoline. Seems to me that forcing production to remain the same while recognizing a drought will reduce supply, will only GREATLY increase overall demand, and corn has what cows crave (it's got electrolytes!), so meat prices will skyrocket as well.

Goes back to my complaint that it's stupid to make fuel out of food (or stuff our food eats) on an industrial scale (versus a guy making his own biodiesel or whatever in his backyard).

[TommyGunn]

......Goes back to my complaint that it's stupid to make fuel out of food (or stuff our food eats) on an industrial scale (versus a guy making his own biodiesel or whatever in his backyard).

Hmmmm.  Even Fidel Castro said this.  Shows how smart some of our leaders really are, I guess ...... 

[HankB]

A rational explanation is very simple if you follow the money. Cargil, Monsanto, etc. sell the corn seed and herbicide to the farmers, and collect subsidies to convert corn to ethanol and make a ton of money.

Your analysis fails to mention banks and assorted financial institutions who get a nice stream of interest payments for loaning the money.

Don't forget the actual ethanol producers; when MN first mandated ethanol seasonally in the Twin Cities area, someone did a study and found a very strong correlation between legislators who voted for the mandate and those who'd received campaign cash from Archer-Daniels Midland, one of the largest produces of fuel ethanol around.

Worse than that even - 10% ethanol yields about 20% lower mpg 

I'm not sure of the exact percentage of alcohol dilution that was mandated in MN, but the "experts" claimed the fuel economy penalty was only 3%.

They lied.

My testing - and that of colleagues - very consistently showed a fuel economy penalty of 10%, over 3x the claim.

[Tallpine]

I'm not sure of the exact percentage of alcohol dilution that was mandated in MN, but the "experts" claimed the fuel economy penalty was only 3%.

They lied.

My testing - and that of colleagues - very consistently showed a fuel economy penalty of 10%, over 3x the claim.

My own experience is dropping from a steady 29-31 mpg down to 23-25mpg, which is well over 10%.

Thus the addition of the ethanol actually wastes more gasoline than it displaces 

[French G.]

I think the real environmental issue is one no one will touch. It has been massively stupid to plant corn in preference to other crops that are better suited to the local climes. I guess it could be worse, we could plant cotton and drain the Aral Sea, but short of that, let's take a crop that requires massive water and fertilizer and plant it everywhere to make fuel from. Land better suited for wheat? Too bad. CRP? What CRP? No need for wildlife or rested soil, plant more corn! Idiotic.

[birdman]

My testing - and that of colleagues - very consistently showed a fuel economy penalty of 10%, over 3x the claim.

What year vehicle?  How many tanks of fuel of each? Identical driving and acceleration profiles for each? Temperatures?

Most of the mileage irregularities beyond the difference in the actual fuel energy content are the result of inadvertent skewing of the experiment.  Ethanol increases both the relative oxygen fraction and effective octane, resulting in the ECU compensating by running richer and advancing timing, both of which (assuming you aren't at injector max PW the shoe time) effectively more power, by a few %, which most people unconsciously useon accelerating.  That makes the impact seem greater.

Also, due to vapor pressure differences, most ECU's adjust for air intake temperatures by running richer/leaner, and thus can futher alter trims.  Newer truly flex fuel vehicles actually detect the mix of the fuel and adjust maps accordingly and thus have much closer to theoretical performance.

[French G.]

Gasoline 114,000 BTU/gal Ethanol 76,000 BTU/gal. There's going to be less energy available per whatever unit we buy no matter how good the tune. So, assuming that we are not paying less for the privilege of being forced ethanol we're getting hosed. With E10 it should only be about 2% less energy. I know I saw 15% worse with my old truck, but that was because it was worn out and underpowered and with good gas I was less in the throttle to achieve what I needed, it was a real dog on E10.

I don't see much difference in my car, but the rust in the old fuel filter leads me to believe something's rotten in Denmark, next project for me.