DHS Ammo buy

[Triphammer]

  There's been some discussion of late, primarily in the "2016 Civil War" thread about the NOAA & Social Security buying large lots of ammo. Now I read about a 750 million round buy from DHS. Could this be the fruition of a plan I heard of a while ago for the Feds to tie up every bit of commercial ammunition production & drive up prices & limit availability to civillian buyers. Seems they never have any real success passing laws to limit purchases or taxing ammo out of reach. This strikes me as another end run that this administration is becoming all too well known for.

[Nick1911]

Maybe for a time, but it seems to me that the free market being what it is; higher prices will encourage other manufacturers to expand, ramp up production, hire second and/or third shifts, etc.  Outbuying the production capacity of the free market seems like a poor strategy.  That said, I certainly recall the challange I had acquiring .380 ammo 3 years ago...

[Fitz]

As I've said before... Considering the amount of LE agencies that fall under DHS (including ice, border patrol, uscg, and others), and their training requirements, this isn't all that much.

[Angel Eyes]

Outbuying the production capacity of the free market seems like a poor strategy.

True, but does the administration understand how the free market works?

























(for the record, I do not believe the .gov ammo buys are part of any conspiracy)

[birdman]

Take the SSA buy for instance, people are making a big deal out of 174,000 rounds.  Well, they have 295 investigator/enforcement personnel, who have to serve warrants, etc.  that's like 600rnds per person, not all that significant.

Look at DHS, there are 188,000 people in the department.  750 million rounds is basically a baseline training budget for roughly 300,000 weapons (2500 rounds per year), assuming 2-3 weapons in inventory per real enforcement/protection person, that means a tooth to tail ratio of about 1:2-3, pretty reasonable for a law enforcement / protection agency.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

alex jones hates people like you

[birdman]

Also, I bet in an average year this BOARD buys more than 174,000 rounds of ammo.

[SADShooter]

There's also this. The reality is we've got thousands of armed fedgov officers barney fifng it about. I'd rather see them getting proper training and range time than not, with the notion that a sharp knife is safer than a dull.

[Jamisjockey]

Take the SSA buy for instance, people are making a big deal out of 174,000 rounds.  Well, they have 295 investigator/enforcement personnel, who have to serve warrants, etc.  that's like 600rnds per person, not all that significant.

Look at DHS, there are 188,000 people in the department.  750 million rounds is basically a baseline training budget for roughly 300,000 weapons (2500 rounds per year), assuming 2-3 weapons in inventory per real enforcement/protection person, that means a tooth to tail ratio of about 1:2-3, pretty reasonable for a law enforcement / protection agency.

How dare you yank off their tinfoil hats!

Much ado about nothing.  Well, besides the fact that they are getting to shoot way more than I am. Bastards.

[Triphammer]

No. No tinfoilhettery. I just remembered a mention of this & wanted to throw it out here to get a reasoned view rather than one that is coming out of some other forums.   

[JonnyB]

Which department(s) of the federal government should be armed at all?

In my humble opinion, there are two:

Secret Service
U.S. Marshals

The rest can call upon locals for firepower. Even the FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigation) can use the various State Police, Sheriff's Department or City Police for the run & gun aprehension activities. They track the baddies, and the locals take 'em down.

And, in most cases, by "take 'em down", I mean, approach the (alleged) perp on the street and cuff him or get a warrant and knock on his door. Yes, there are violent offender exceptions, I know.

jb

[Scout26]

Which department(s) of the federal government should be armed at all?

In my humble opinion, there are two:

Secret Service
U.S. Marshals

The rest can call upon locals for firepower. Even the FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigation) can use the various State Police, Sheriff's Department or City Police for the run & gun aprehension activities. They track the baddies, and the locals take 'em down.

And, in most cases, by "take 'em down", I mean, approach the (alleged) perp on the street and cuff him or get a warrant and knock on his door. Yes, there are violent offender exceptions, I know.

jb

This.  Period.

[Waitone]

^^^^ Yeah, me too! ^^^^
The real questions to ask are:
-- Who in fed.gov is armed
-- Why are they armed
-- What is the constitutional and legal justification (notice how I draw a distinction )
-- What are they armed with

Once these questions are answered we can judge whether or not the ammo purchases are justified. 

[MrsSmith]

Also, I bet in an average year this BOARD buys more than 174,000 rounds of ammo.

That would make an interesting poll. I'd be curious to see how much we actually do purchase per year. I can lay claim to about 6000 rounds per year (100/week in my M&P for practice, about 2 mags per week in my .380, the rest in whatever else I happen to be shooting) is what it averages out to. Of course I now also have a shotgun and plan on making another long gun purchase by the end of the year. This year would be a little skewed because I had four months where I only fired a weapon on about three occasions, but on average I'll say 6K/year. Next year it'll likely be higher.

^^^^ Yeah, me too! ^^^^
The real questions to ask are:
-- Who in fed.gov is armed
-- Why are they armed
-- What is the constitutional and legal justification (notice how I draw a distinction )
-- What are they armed with

Once these questions are answered we can judge whether or not the ammo purchases are justified. 

I'm not seeing any justification at all for some of these agencies.

[birdman]

That would make an interesting poll. I'd be curious to see how much we actually do purchase per year. I can lay claim to about 6000 rounds per year (100/week in my M&P for practice, about 2 mags per week in my .380, the rest in whatever else I happen to be shooting) is what it averages out to. Of course I now also have a shotgun and plan on making another long gun purchase by the end of the year. This year would be a little skewed because I had four months where I only fired a weapon on about three occasions, but on average I'll say 6K/year. Next year it'll likely be higher.

I'm not seeing any justification at all for some of these agencies.

I probably shoot 10-15k per year, so that's 1/9th of that SSA buy in just two people

[Jamisjockey]

^^^^ Yeah, me too! ^^^^
The real questions to ask are:
-- Who in fed.gov is armed
-- Why are they armed
-- What is the constitutional and legal justification (notice how I draw a distinction )
-- What are they armed with

Once these questions are answered we can judge whether or not the ammo purchases are justified.

The constitutional justification is the congress passed laws creating agencies and giving those agencies powers including law enforcement powers.

We are ruled by agencies, not by congress.

[dogmush]

That would make an interesting poll. I'd be curious to see how much we actually do purchase per year. I can lay claim to about 6000 rounds per year (100/week in my M&P for practice, about 2 mags per week in my .380, the rest in whatever else I happen to be shooting) is what it averages out to. Of course I now also have a shotgun and plan on making another long gun purchase by the end of the year. This year would be a little skewed because I had four months where I only fired a weapon on about three occasions, but on average I'll say 6K/year. Next year it'll likely be higher.

I'm not seeing any justification at all for some of these agencies.

Counting rimfire? Crap. Maybe 20k? If you limit it to centerfire more like 10k. I don't really keep track. I know I bought 3000 9mm and 3000 5.56 in jan and ran out of both at the begining of this month.