Author Topic: When is a tip not a tip?  (Read 4742 times)

vaskidmark

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When is a tip not a tip?
« on: August 31, 2012, 06:17:43 AM »
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/burlington-vt-restaurants-add-gratuity-foreigners-bills/story?id=17076167

Quote
The last time it happened the France-born Humbert, her husband, Steve Hulsey, and her nephew were eating at Splash at the Boathouse, and speaking French.

At the end of the meal they glanced at the bill and wondered why it was so hefty. Then they realized that an 18 percent gratuity had been tacked on--common for parties of five or more, but generally not added to the checks of smaller groups.

"Three times in less than a year I thought, 'There's something going on here,'" Humbert, who lives in neighboring Williston, Vt., and has been in the states for 30 years, told ABC News. "It was not a mistake."

So she asked the server why the tip was added on--and was told it was because she had been speaking a foreign language. Burlington, which is less than 100 miles from Montreal, gets a large number of Canadian tourists over the summer. "They explained to us that they get pretty bad tips from people from Quebec and Europe, and that they had a policy to add gratuity to get what they needed," she recalled.
[emphasis added]

Throw a tip amount on my bill and you run the very real chance of me paying absolutely nothing but the cost of the meal.  The "tip" that you will likely receive is a polite note informing you that a gratuity is something that one person gives another person out of the generousness of their heart, not some amount to be extorted by a money-grubbing weasel.

Before you get your panties all wadded up, I know how hard most servers work, and how little their "salary" is, as well as the games that are played with requiring them to split (declared) tips with cooks and buspersons - both of which receive at least minimum wage. :mad:

Most of the time when I eat out it is in the company of a friend or two or twelve, and we tend to linger over the meal for conversation.  We stay much longer than the "usual" customer.  Therefor, we do not so much tip as we leave "table rent" - at least three and sometimes as much as five times the "usual" 15% .  A few servers that go out of their way to accommodate us normally receive the amount of the bill as a tip - because we think they are worth it.

I don't know about Vermont, but in Virginia the amount that a restaurant adds as the "tip" cannot legally be enforced.  One poor server learned that the hard way by getting arrested for false imprisonment when she locked the door on us and called the police because we left only 10% as a tip, instead of the 15% indicated on the bill.  She became even poorer when we took back the amount that was left as a tip.  And poorer still when she had her day in court - charges were reduced to "curse in public" because we agreed to that if she got her hand seriously smacked.  $100 fine and 6 months probation seemed about right to us.  Never mess with a bunch of curmudgeonly old men! =D

So - if you are faced with a specific gratuity already computed on your bill, how to you respond?  For the sake of discussion, let's say the amount is higher than 15% of the bill.

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RoadKingLarry

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Re: When is a tip not a tip?
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2012, 06:41:49 AM »
My baseline tip is 15%. I'll add to that if we have one or more of the grand kids with us and start deducting if they don't keep the Mrs. coffee cup full or if we have to wait longer than it should be for our check to be bright out.

Last time I was someplace that added a mandatory "gratuity" it was with a group of bikers. The bunch I ride with tend to be pretty generous tippers. The added tip was only 10% and that's all we left. If it hadn't been for that the tip would have been in the 25-30% even though the service wasn't great, not bad but not great. We made sure the manager knew about it and knew we not be back.

I'll have to check on the legality of a forced gratuity in Oklahoma but my usual is not to go back.
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Jamisjockey

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Re: When is a tip not a tip?
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2012, 08:24:37 AM »
Mandatory gratuity is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen.  I will not tip unless for exceptional service when I'm hit with it. 
Exceptional service is a rarity.
JD

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SADShooter

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Re: When is a tip not a tip?
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2012, 09:40:15 AM »
I'm one of those freaks who reads the fine print on the menu. If it's your policy, and I order, I've tacitly agreed to abide by your policy. If it's not printed or spoken and you essentially try to scam me, all bets are off. I'm certainly not coming back, and you'll know it, along with potential customers.

I've also worked in food service, and I know how difficult it can be. If you make an effort to be pleasant and responsive, I'll be generous. If your crappy day or bad attitude is flaunted, you get the minimum.
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Stetson

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Re: When is a tip not a tip?
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2012, 09:53:44 AM »
We tip well if it is deserved.  We usually don't go out without our daughter and her behaving long enough to 'earn' it isn't often.  Her behaving while out is demanded and she does but she is 4 and the server didn't sign up to be over run by her personality.

We get around the "manadatory group tip" that they try to plan for a head of time by meeting the whole group there as a "Surprise!  We haven't seen you in years!  Come sit with us".  The monetary tip is usually +8%.  If we believe it should be more we'll talk to the manager and have that removed so we pay taxes on the lower amount and then tip from that point.

We've only ever had one complaint but 'T' was less that a year old and cried 2x.  Second time I took T to the car and my wife took care of the bill and grabbed what we had ordered.




grampster

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Re: When is a tip not a tip?
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2012, 10:11:54 AM »
We generally tip at 20% and up.  Our deal is that we figure we are being served by others.  Prep, cooking, wait staff, clean up, surroundings etc are all part of a dining project.  If we can afford to eat out, then we should be prepared to extend our gratitude for being able to do so to those who serve us.  If one pays attention, a surly or inattentive server is usually the result of something like having too many tables to take care of, or they have been crapped on by nitwit diners.  I find that being kind to a server usually results in good service even if they were grumpy to begin with.
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Fly320s

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Re: When is a tip not a tip?
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2012, 10:42:35 AM »
Stetson, the tip should never be taxed.  If a restaurant is doing that, it is way out of line.
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Fitz

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Re: When is a tip not a tip?
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2012, 11:49:15 AM »
I tip well for good service.

I leave NOTHING for bad service. Occasionally I'll write the reason for no tip in the tip area on the ticket.

I will not reward bad behavior with a "slightly smaller" extra bit of money.
Fitz

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Jamisjockey

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Re: When is a tip not a tip?
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2012, 11:56:05 AM »
I'm one of those freaks who reads the fine print on the menu. If it's your policy, and I order, I've tacitly agreed to abide by your policy. If it's not printed or spoken and you essentially try to scam me, all bets are off. I'm certainly not coming back, and you'll know it, along with potential customers.

I've also worked in food service, and I know how difficult it can be. If you make an effort to be pleasant and responsive, I'll be generous. If your crappy day or bad attitude is flaunted, you get the minimum.

My issue with that is that generally you will not know your party of 8 was tagged with gratis until you've waited an hour to be seated and receive menus.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

41magsnub

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Re: When is a tip not a tip?
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2012, 11:56:11 AM »
I tip well for good service.

I leave NOTHING for bad service. Occasionally I'll write the reason for no tip in the tip area on the ticket.

I will not reward bad behavior with a "slightly smaller" extra bit of money.

That is my philosophy as well.  I will make an exception if the bad service is clearly not the fault of the server, such as the restaurant is understaffed and they are trying but not keeping up.

Fitz

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Re: When is a tip not a tip?
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2012, 11:57:08 AM »
That is my philosophy as well.  I will make an exception if the bad service is clearly not the fault of the server, such as the restaurant is understaffed and they are trying but not keeping up.

Yeah... if it is a management or kitchen problem, and the server is doing what she can, I'll still tip
Fitz

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Re: When is a tip not a tip?
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2012, 12:09:10 PM »
Stetson, the tip should never be taxed.  If a restaurant is doing that, it is way out of line.

My first job was as a busboy in a red lobster down in Miami. If I'm remembering correctly, the state did tax the servers' tips. Really is BS because at the time the hourly wage was $2.13 (in the 90's).

SADShooter

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Re: When is a tip not a tip?
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2012, 12:17:23 PM »
My first job was as a busboy in a red lobster down in Miami. If I'm remembering correctly, the state did tax the servers' tips. Really is BS because at the time the hourly wage was $2.13 (in the 90's).

Taxed as wages. Not on the customer check.
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Jamisjockey

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Re: When is a tip not a tip?
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2012, 12:18:46 PM »
My first job was as a busboy in a red lobster down in Miami. If I'm remembering correctly, the state did tax the servers' tips. Really is BS because at the time the hourly wage was $2.13 (in the 90's).

Which is why I prefer to tip cash, even if paying for dinner with a cc.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

Fly320s

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Re: When is a tip not a tip?
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2012, 12:29:50 PM »
Taxed as wages. Not on the customer check.

Correct.

I meant that a restaurant should not add sales tax to the tip amount.
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Tallpine

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Re: When is a tip not a tip?
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2012, 12:52:55 PM »
I generally tip pretty generous when I'm working in a city somewhere and eating out all the time, partly because of the disparity between what I make and what the servers make.

But there are some servers who are absolutely awful  =(

Also, I'm a little confused about what is now apparently the practice to tip at fast food places  ???
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Fitz

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Re: When is a tip not a tip?
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2012, 12:59:00 PM »
I generally tip pretty generous when I'm working in a city somewhere and eating out all the time, partly because of the disparity between what I make and what the servers make.

But there are some servers who are absolutely awful  =(

Also, I'm a little confused about what is now apparently the practice to tip at fast food places  ???

Nope. Fast food places, take out, etc. No tip.

Fitz

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Scout26

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Re: When is a tip not a tip?
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2012, 01:13:20 PM »
I can understand the reasoning behind the OP's story.  When I was in Germany (and most of the rest of Europe) the "tip" was built into the bill.  If you wanted to show that you appreciated the server then you rounded up the bill to the next full DM (or Franc or Guilder, etc).  So I can see that visiting European tourists don't leave a tip, because it's simply not done there.

Took me a little while to relearn how to tip.....I apologize to any servers I may have inadvertently may have stiffed. 
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Tallpine

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Re: When is a tip not a tip?
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2012, 01:37:28 PM »
Nope. Fast food places, take out, etc. No tip.



Well, that's my policy.

I'm just a little bothered when you pay for a hamburger/taco/etc with a credit card*, and the receipt to sign has a line to enter a tip  ;/


* I always do so when on business trips, so as to have a duplicate record of my expenses.
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Jamie B

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Re: When is a tip not a tip?
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2012, 01:38:20 PM »
I tip well when it is deserved.

Why not pay the servers a fair wage, and eliminate the tipping completely?

No matter how you slice it, the consumer is paying for the service anyway.
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HankB

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Re: When is a tip not a tip?
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2012, 01:45:33 PM »
I normally tip 15% - 20%. Lower range for "average" service, upper range for "exceptional" service.

We often use coupons - sometimes "Buy one entree, get one free." In those cases, I tip based on what the meal would have cost WITHOUT the coupon; I'm not going to stiff a server because I got a discount on the meal. (Some people do.)

On those rare occasions when I get bad service - perhaps once a year - I leave no tip at all.

One time my aunt and cousin were at a restaurant and got charged for something they didn't have. (Long story, details are unimportant.) So . . . they paid the bill and left no tip. And on the way out they thanked the waitress for the "extra" . . . and informed her that SHE bought it for them, since that's where her tip went.

I'm told the look of sheer, mute fury on her face was worth it.  =D
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kgbsquirrel

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Re: When is a tip not a tip?
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2012, 02:06:19 PM »
Correct.

I meant that a restaurant should not add sales tax to the tip amount.

Ah, okay. (And I still think the the server's tips shouldn't be taxed.)

Fitz

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Re: When is a tip not a tip?
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2012, 02:24:21 PM »
I tip well when it is deserved.

Why not pay the servers a fair wage, and eliminate the tipping completely?

No matter how you slice it, the consumer is paying for the service anyway.

There's a restaurant called the BlackStar co-op in Austin TX who pays their employees a "living wage" and thus encourage you not to tip.

The food was fantastic, too
Fitz

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Stetson

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Re: When is a tip not a tip?
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2012, 03:04:41 PM »
Correct.

I meant that a restaurant should not add sales tax to the tip amount.

Bill + 8 % + tip = $x <--- others we end up usually going to dinner with.

Bill = $x + tip   <----us

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: When is a tip not a tip?
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2012, 04:54:06 PM »
The Irs wil go after servers based on their sales. They will figure they made a certain amount over what their rung sales and you under report you get dinged
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