Why do people think a truck is something that can be borrowed?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

2- They really do use it; it is very practical, everyday. For real.

On this one I call BS. For the reasons already mentioned. The overwhelming majority of pickup owners do not own them for practical reasons. The majority who say such are self deluded. I wonder if these people even know why they bought it. Hence, the status symbol theory makes the most sense and fits the data.
If it was really practical, the owner would have the financial numbers off the top of his head, because they would be talking about business expensing the truck. And a successful business owner knows his costs to the penny.


do share your background please so we can properly assess your theory

[Ben]

If it was really practical, the owner would have the financial numbers off the top of his head, because they would be talking about business expensing the truck. And a successful business owner knows his costs to the penny.

You mean like this? Vroom. Vroom.

[Lee]

The Miata has always been on my list of wants....that or a Vespa.

[Bigjake]

This is why I insist on a pickup with a manual trans.  The vast majority of folks that would attempt to mooch it can't drive stick.

It's not an ironclad rule,  but I can usually determine a person's general usefulness by that ability.

[roo_ster]

Gonna pick up an older pickup after the current vehicles are paid off.  Preferred would be:
ext cab/4-door
4wd (negotiable)
manual tranny (negotiable)
1/2ton or 3/4 ton preferable, 1 ton in a pinch, no dually.

Really only interested in the following makes/years:
Ford 1967-1996, earlier being better
Chevy/GMC C/K, again, earlier being better
Dodge up to 1993, earlier = better

I would prefer something before 1987, since that is the emissions testing cutoff.

[MechAg94]

Don't be so solipsistic and turn this personal. This isn't about you. This is about how MUCH do trucks suck, and WHY.

Believe me when I say I have spent plenty of time driving trucks, vans, and SUVs. They really do handle quite awful.

0.8g is really terrible. I mean seriously, Honda Civics from the 1980s did better than that. Yes, this pos:




Even modern trucks wallow through the corners. Thats why people are afraid to drive more than 15mph on an on-ramp. They feel the pig rolling over to its side (wallowing) at any faster speed.
Would you all just pull over and get the piece of junk out of the way? If it (or the driver) can't handle accelerating to highway speeds, then it is not highway capable.



The fact is that <5% of the population lives in remote rural areas. APS over counts that behavior. The fact is that <1% do farming work. And yet we are talking about a vehicle that makes ~14% of the market share.
Yeah, cause a Miata is a status symbol. pffff  



There are 2 answers this board has given on why someone would buy such a useless vehicle.

1- They like it. Not practical argument, but they like the looks, the feel and the social status.

To this I say, ok, sure. Thats an emotional and preference argument. I don't understand it, but I'm not really going to argue against emotional preference. I prefer sportscars. I know they are not practical either, but I love 'em. Soo much fun and I love sportscar racing.





2- They really do use it; it is very practical, everyday. For real.

On this one I call BS. For the reasons already mentioned. The overwhelming majority of pickup owners do not own them for practical reasons. The majority who say such are self deluded. I wonder if these people even know why they bought it. Hence, the status symbol theory makes the most sense and fits the data.
If it was really practical, the owner would have the financial numbers off the top of his head, because they would be talking about business expensing the truck. And a successful business owner knows his costs to the penny.

and your BS reasons for owning cars or not liking trucks are equally meaningless and invalid.  I feel sorry for you that you can't appreciate a good truck.

Your hatred for trucks blinds you.  That path leads only to the dark side.  

[Tallpine]

Bring your sports car out to my place and help me cut and haul a cord of firewood. 

I hope it's a convertible 

[kgbsquirrel]

and your BS reasons for owning cars or not liking trucks are equally meaningless and invalid.  I feel sorry for you that you can't appreciate a good truck.

Your hatred for trucks blinds you.  That path leads only to the dark side.  

But what about my hatred for trucks that have been slammed to the ground and have tiny tires that stick way out to the sides? I find those things to be even more offensive visually than an el camino.

[Ben]

But what about my hatred for trucks that have been slammed to the ground and have tiny tires that stick way out to the sides?

That's hatred I can believe in.

[MillCreek]

I find those things to be even more offensive visually than an el camino.

I have always had a soft spot in my heart, based on high school experience, for the El Camino and the Ranchero.  I liked the Subaru Brat and Baja, too.

[Tallpine]

I have always had a soft spot in my heart, based on high school experience, for the El Camino and the Ranchero.  I liked the Subaru Brat and Baja, too.

What about 1957 Chevrolet back seats ?   

[Boomhauer]

Don't be so solipsistic and turn this personal. This isn't about you. This is about how MUCH do trucks suck, and WHY.

Believe me when I say I have spent plenty of time driving trucks, vans, and SUVs. They really do handle quite awful.

0.8g is really terrible. I mean seriously, Honda Civics from the 1980s did better than that. Yes, this pos:




Even modern trucks wallow through the corners. Thats why people are afraid to drive more than 15mph on an on-ramp. They feel the pig rolling over to its side (wallowing) at any faster speed.
Would you all just pull over and get the piece of junk out of the way? If it (or the driver) can't handle accelerating to highway speeds, then it is not highway capable.



The fact is that <5% of the population lives in remote rural areas. APS over counts that behavior. The fact is that <1% do farming work. And yet we are talking about a vehicle that makes ~14% of the market share.
Yeah, cause a Miata is a status symbol. pffff  



There are 2 answers this board has given on why someone would buy such a useless vehicle.

1- They like it. Not practical argument, but they like the looks, the feel and the social status.

To this I say, ok, sure. Thats an emotional and preference argument. I don't understand it, but I'm not really going to argue against emotional preference. I prefer sportscars. I know they are not practical either, but I love 'em. Soo much fun and I love sportscar racing.





2- They really do use it; it is very practical, everyday. For real.

On this one I call BS. For the reasons already mentioned. The overwhelming majority of pickup owners do not own them for practical reasons. The majority who say such are self deluded. I wonder if these people even know why they bought it. Hence, the status symbol theory makes the most sense and fits the data.
If it was really practical, the owner would have the financial numbers off the top of his head, because they would be talking about business expensing the truck. And a successful business owner knows his costs to the penny.

You are the one turning it personal, you are the one who came in this thread and started pissing all over the carpet with your BS.

[Strings]

When did Drew become a troll? Or has he always been, and I just didn't notice?

[Jamisjockey]

This thread is getting teh dumbz.

[MechAg94]

But what about my hatred for trucks that have been slammed to the ground and have tiny tires that stick way out to the sides? I find those things to be even more offensive visually than an el camino.

Okay, that is turning one of our beloved trucks into a car.  That IS the Dark Side. 

[Fitz]

I'm ok with lowered trucks, IF AND ONLY IF they are both A.) V8s. B.) forced induction.

Additionally, the lowering should be accomplished ONLY using performance grade suspension pieces. Ford racing, etc. Clipping springs is a no-go

As for el caminos and whatnot... I'd love to see PROPER utes come to america.

[birdman]

2- They really do use it; it is very practical, everyday. For real.

On this one I call BS. For the reasons already mentioned. The overwhelming majority of pickup owners do not own them for practical reasons. The majority who say such are self deluded. I wonder if these people even know why they bought it. Hence, the status symbol theory makes the most sense and fits the data.
If it was really practical, the owner would have the financial numbers off the top of his head, because they would be talking about business expensing the truck. And a successful business owner knows his costs to the penny.

I bought a pickup rather than a regular car for practical reasons:
1. I need to haul race bikes and trailer to track (5-10x per year)
2. I go off roading with it (1-2x per year)
3. I use the bed for carrying large items 10-20x per year
4. I need a daily driver that ISN'T my supercar
Given all of the above, it was either:
A. Get a daily driver nice car for 1/2 as much as the truck (saving ~$4k per year), and rent a truck 40-50 days a year (costing $1-2k per year) and give up off roading with my family
Or
B. get my truck, which also gives me a GOOD vehicle, and the convenience of not having to go to rent one.  Given the number of times I need it, that time is worth WAY more than the truck payment.

Also, my truck pulls 0.71g skidpad (vs 0.9g miata, or a difference of ~10% in speed) and does 0-60 faster than all the Miata's except the mazdaspeed and the latest version, which only beat it by 0.7s (6.9 vs 6.2sec)

So how am I not being practical or deluding myself?  My truck was absolutely cost effective for what I actually use it's pickup abilities for, gives me a vehicle to use for off roading with family, and performs on the street within 10-20% of your miata?

As for sportscar racing and track days, or fun driving, well, I have a car for that.

So I think you need to add a third option, for those that need a SECOND vehicle.

[Boomhauer]

You're just DELUDED birdman!

[birdman]

You're just DELUDED birdman!

Deluded?  Or just taking advantage of putting myself through 8 years of college, and now working three jobs to enjoy what are almost inarguably the best out of the box off roading truck (raptor) and one of the best super-cars (gtr) on the planet?

You are right, I am deluded, it's a side-effect of the massive smile from being able to jump a truck off a sand-dune on a friday, and doing 0-60 in under 4 seconds on the way to the store the following day :)

[drewtam]

You mean like this? Vroom. Vroom.

Yes, like that. Or excel is just as good.

Except you are missing the part where the ROI is calculated compared to say, renting or leasing as necessary. See birdman's response as example.

I bought a pickup rather than a regular car for practical reasons:
1. I need to haul race bikes and trailer to track (5-10x per year)
2. I go off roading with it (1-2x per year)
3. I use the bed for carrying large items 10-20x per year
4. I need a daily driver that ISN'T my supercar
Given all of the above, it was either:
A. Get a daily driver nice car for 1/2 as much as the truck (saving ~$4k per year), and rent a truck 40-50 days a year (costing $1-2k per year) and give up off roading with my family
Or
B. get my truck, which also gives me a GOOD vehicle, and the convenience of not having to go to rent one.  Given the number of times I need it, that time is worth WAY more than the truck payment.

Also, my truck pulls 0.71g skidpad (vs 0.9g miata, or a difference of ~10% in speed) and does 0-60 faster than all the Miata's except the mazdaspeed and the latest version, which only beat it by 0.7s (6.9 vs 6.2sec)

So how am I not being practical or deluding myself?  My truck was absolutely cost effective for what I actually use it's pickup abilities for, gives me a vehicle to use for off roading with family, and performs on the street within 10-20% of your miata?

As for sportscar racing and track days, or fun driving, well, I have a car for that.

So I think you need to add a third option, for those that need a SECOND vehicle.

Finally, someone who really did the math. 1 in a million.
Even your own math, with very optimistic use assumptions shows that renting would save $2k/yr! For most people that is a load of cash. I do understand where you are coming from, you're successful enough to say, "screw it I would rather save a few hours per trip by not renting, don't need the extra $2k/yr". But you're also successful enough to know that one needs to do the math and understand what kind of choice is really being made.

Yeah, mines a mazdaspeed, with the boost turned up and nice sticky tires. ~1g on rough road, I am curious what it will do on smooth road. 0-120 its about equal to a 350hp 'Stang.

When did Drew become a troll? Or has he always been, and I just didn't notice?

Finally someone notices. I have a soft spot for this topic. Obviously, I don't like pickups personally, but I don't remotely care what other people drive. But pickup owners are sooo sensitive to defend their choice. They identify with the things personally. And it is a social marker that one is part of the manly conservative social group, and not an "enviroweeny". Too funny.

[Boomhauer]

Ooookkkaaaayyyy then.

[Ben]

Yes, like that. Or excel is just as good.

Except you are missing the part where the ROI is calculated compared to say, renting or leasing as necessary. See birdman's response as example.

My rentals are 250 miles away. I did the math for the last twenty years. Mileage plus depreciation = win.  :)

Also, it makes me feel very manly. I can practically see the hair growing on my chest.

[Jamisjockey]

Yes, like that. Or excel is just as good.

Except you are missing the part where the ROI is calculated compared to say, renting or leasing as necessary. See birdman's response as example.


Finally, someone who really did the math. 1 in a million.
Even your own math, with very optimistic use assumptions shows that renting would save $2k/yr! For most people that is a load of cash. I do understand where you are coming from, you're successful enough to say, "screw it I would rather save a few hours per trip by not renting, don't need the extra $2k/yr". But you're also successful enough to know that one needs to do the math and understand what kind of choice is really being made.

Yeah, mines a mazdaspeed, with the boost turned up and nice sticky tires. ~1g on rough road, I am curious what it will do on smooth road. 0-120 its about equal to a 350hp 'Stang.


Finally someone notices. I have a soft spot for this topic. Obviously, I don't like pickups personally, but I don't remotely care what other people drive. But pickup owners are sooo sensitive to defend their choice. They identify with the things personally. And it is a social marker that one is part of the manly conservative social group, and not an "enviroweeny". Too funny.

You're the one who came out insulting and swinging.  
This is America, where "just because I *expletive deleted* can" is reason enough.
I have a soft spot for people who buy high performance sports cars meant to be driven at high rates of speed when the speed limit is barely half the cars top end.  But you don't see me insulting you.

[gunsmith]

people always wanted to borrow my old priceless Gibson guitar too, I started examining fingers to see if they had guitar players callous - if not I would tell them "sure, you let me borrow two grand and I'll let you borrow the guitar"

Lost the darn thing though.

[MechAg94]

Drewtam, Ben's math was done for a super high performance truck versus an economy car.  For me to get a car with the same interior options and reasonable interior space, the cost difference would not be so much.  I would also think most high performance sports cars would be more than a truck.