We are *expletive deleted*ed

[longeyes]

How are you going to make that secession happen? How are you going to respond to the armed response from the feds?

With a little help from my friends...?

Hey, I don't know.  No one does.

I believe States have a right to withdraw from the Union.  You telling me it is not a voluntary union?  Of course The Feds think otherwise.  No surprise there.  Contracts can be dissolved.  The States did not sign on for complete suppression and subordination.  Neither did the American people. 

[longeyes]

How are you going to make that secession happen? How are you going to respond to the armed response from the feds?

"Secession" could mean more State or even regional autonomy, special tax exemptions, any manner of things.  This is the kind of thing that is dynamic and worked out according to the context existing at the time.

My real point is that one reaches a point where you decide not to play, you don't try to keep making the game honest when you know the rules have irrevocably changed.

[seeker_two]

Compared to what, working in a Henry Clay Frick style environment, busting your ass for a wage while knowing you'll be fired by the boss for exercising your right as an American to vote on either ticket?

Compared to crying to Mommy Media and Daddy Barak to go after the mean ol' capitalist who hurt your widdle feewings when he found out you were undercutting his business.....I'd fire you too if I found you stabbing me and my family's income in the back....

[seeker_two]

Secession isn't going to happen....the next civil war we have will start out like Sherwood Forest and end up looking like Belfast...

[lysander6]

Secession is the natural order of things, it is the means by which all nation states evolve.  Thirteen nation states met with the UK in 1783 in Paris, not the US.  The UK has had more colonies and states calve off from it than left the USSR in two years in 1989-91.  History, East and West, is rife with examples but the average American buys into the myth of US exceptionalism and that this mess will go on forever. 

These states either carve out a partition or take over the entire governance of a nation like the Basques and Eire respectively.

In the US, this will start with nullification by braver state legislatures.  If just one state leaves the union, there will be a stampede.

The US is done as a federal entity, it is now only a matter of time before it breaks apart and who knows what that will look like, the entire US intelliegnce community was caught with their pants down in 1990 as the USSR fell apart; they had no clue.  These are Black Swan events.

It can be violent like Yugoslavia or peaceful like the Czeck-Slovak divorce or a slow death like the Irish in Northern Ireland or a bitter civil war after liberation like Eire from 1920-22 or a thousand other permutations in between.  For the US, it is not a matter of if but when.  The US is too big to succeed and the dual suicidal impulses of imperial military over-reach and fiscal stupidity on a gargantuan scale have sealed the fate.

If the Feds can't provision the FSA with loot taken from drained producers, what will be the glue to hold the Fed together?

Some possibilities:  http://zerogov.com/?p=2689

I gave a speech on secession at PorcFest 2012:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O28aiatbmuM

You can dismiss it but secession is the natural order of history.  Those who study history are doomed to watch it repeated.

[Balog]

Well, I can't argue with vague generalities, abuse of terminology, or opinions presented as facts so I think I'll just reiterate "Good luck with that."

[lysander6]

Well, I can't argue with vague generalities, abuse of terminology, or opinions presented as facts so I think I'll just reiterate "Good luck with that."

Who could top such a riposte. Touche'.

[Balog]

Who could top such a riposte. Touche'.

Thankfully my life consists of a whole stable full of better things to do than argue fruitlessly with people like you on the internet. Also thankfully, I stopped caring what random crazy folks on the internet think of me. Have fun planning the revolution.

[charby]

Thankfully my life consists of a whole stable full of better things to do than argue fruitlessly with people like you on the internet. Also thankfully, I stopped caring what random crazy folks on the internet think of me. Have fun planning the revolution.

I love* you man!

*platonically speaking.

[AZRedhawk44]

If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.

[Balog]

 

So what are you doing to foment revolution Azred? Surely the Founders wouldn't approve of someone quoting their fiery rhetoric who's main contribution to hte cause of liberty is stockpiling for themselves and whining on the internet, so what are you actively doing to bring down the fed.gov you hate so much?

[Gewehr98]

I understand he's laying in a cache of Mosin Nagants...  

[brimic]

I understand he's laying in a cache of Mosin Nagants...

*yawn*  Who hasn't?



 

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

So do you own your own company?

Yes, I consult. And my job duties include deciding who comes on to my location (person (s) ,vendors etc..).  What I say goes.  If I dont like who it is, for whatever reason, they cost too much, they are late, they have a bad attitude, they get ran off.  Period.  Ill just add another to the list. 

[De Selby]

Yes, I consult. And my job duties include deciding who comes on to my location (person (s) ,vendors etc..).  What I say goes.  If I dont like who it is, for whatever reason, they cost too much, they are late, they have a bad attitude, they get ran off.  Period.  Ill just add another to the list. 

And you wonder why Romney lost - more than a few voters don't want a boss like this running the country, much less being responsible for their pay checks.

[Monkeyleg]

...the myth of US exceptionalism...

Thank you, Barack.

[AZRedhawk44]

So what are you doing to foment revolution Azred? Surely the Founders wouldn't approve of someone quoting their fiery rhetoric who's main contribution to hte cause of liberty is stockpiling for themselves and whining on the internet, so what are you actively doing to bring down the fed.gov you hate so much?

Building a network of like-minded folks in real-space, not on the innerwebz, to build and participate in alternate economy.  To be able to feed one another, provide tools and equipment and services to one another, when the inflation of the dollar makes that impossible in the conventional market.  To starve the machine of State by depriving it of its "share" of transactions.

I understand he's laying in a cache of Mosin Nagants...  

Nope, only own 1.  But I do have half a dozen .22 rifles that I purchased deliberately to train about a thousand participants at Appleseeds.  Each has the scars on the muzzle that every idgit novice gun handler puts into it from grinding the crown against the ground while attempting to get up from the prone position, and some few of those novice gun handlers have been allowed to carve their names into the stock after proving themselves Riflemen.

[seeker_two]

And you wonder why Romney lost - more than a few voters don't want a boss like this running the country, much less being responsible for their pay checks.

So....instead, you'd want a boss who will penalize and grind down all who oppose his viewpoints with regulation and mob rule until you surrender your paycheck to friends of the boss who don't even work there?.....

[Balog]

Building a network of like-minded folks in real-space, not on the innerwebz, to build and participate in alternate economy.  To be able to feed one another, provide tools and equipment and services to one another, when the inflation of the dollar makes that impossible in the conventional market.  To starve the machine of State by depriving it of its "share" of transactions.

Commendable goal. Not really related to the masturbatory Civil War II fantasies I was addressing earlier.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

I'm not going to give money to folks who vote against my interest and who want to have a socialist nation. Period. If you don't like it, feel free to ignore my posts.

[charby]

I'm not going to give money to folks who vote against my interest and who want to have a socialist nation. Period. If you don't like it, feel free to ignore my posts.

I'm sorry but you didn't give them money, they performed a service and you compensated them for their time and skills.

If you are that self-absorbed perhaps you need to find a different forum to preach on.

[longeyes]

Well, I can't argue with vague generalities, abuse of terminology, or opinions presented as facts so I think I'll just reiterate "Good luck with that."

Ah, someone else to share the abuse finally.  :)

Secession is no anomaly. 

[Balog]

This conversation reminds me of this http://www.libertarianrepublican.net/2012/11/the-end-of-liberty-in-america-only.html

Longeyes: it's really easy to talk about starting a war on the internet.

[Monkeyleg]

Longeyes: it's really easy to talk about starting a war on the internet.

Sort of like talking about all of the really hot women you've bedded, when nobody's ever seen you or the women.

[Ron]

Aren't there any states that want liberty minded folks?

Come to _________ and earn your own keep! We abhor taxes and protect property and liberty here in the great state of ________. Forge your own destiny among like minded Americans who believe the government that governs best governs least.

If a state put out the word it wanted true classical liberals would they come? Would the state prosper?