Author Topic: The next Obama  (Read 81682 times)

zxcvbob

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Re: The next Obama
« Reply #50 on: November 10, 2012, 10:26:37 PM »
Maybe the Republicans will pull a rabbit out of their hat, but right now I don't see any female Republicans that would be popular (or more precisely, more popular than Hillary) among independents and undecideds.

Gov. Susana Martinez of New Mexico.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: The next Obama
« Reply #51 on: November 10, 2012, 10:54:36 PM »
Gov. Susana Martinez of New Mexico.


But Republicans will neeeeeeeeeever vote for an Hispanic. Just like them evangelicals will never vote for Mitt Romney.  :rofl:
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makattak

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Re: The next Obama
« Reply #52 on: November 10, 2012, 11:12:43 PM »
Gov. Susana Martinez of New Mexico.

I loved her convention speech. My favorite line: "Damn, we're Republicans!"
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

SADShooter

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Re: The next Obama
« Reply #53 on: November 11, 2012, 09:32:11 AM »
Shifting demographics?  You mean liberty should step aside for fertility?  The fertility of a group of people many of whom arrived here illegally?  Excuse me, but that is an ignoble position, though not unexpected from the Republican hierarchy.

I clearly acknowledged a fact. I didn't assert it should serve as a basis for ignoring principles.
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Strings

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Re: The next Obama
« Reply #54 on: November 11, 2012, 02:20:23 PM »
I have to agree with some of the folks here: I've heard a LOT of people who, if some of the conservative social issues were dropped, would seriously consider voting R. But those social issues drive a wedge.

Abortion... isn't moving. It's a dead issue at the moment, except as a way of getting people VERY excited and drawing stupid statements out of people. Let it be for awhile: we have bigger problems as a nation.

Also: leave the whole "gay marriage" issue alone. Seriously: you have any idea how many gays would be willing to look at R candidates, if it wasn't for that? Google "Pink Pistols".

That's just two issues that come to mind
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Ron

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Re: The next Obama
« Reply #55 on: November 11, 2012, 02:32:31 PM »
The two social issues mentioned aren't being driven by conservatives.

Both issues are being driven by the so called progressives.

From what I gather Obamacare will be providing government funding for abortions. The pro abortion contingent are the ones not content with the status quo, they are expanding the practice and using tax dollars to pay for their agenda.

The gay marriage issue is a Trojan horse that will eventually provide the legal foundation to silence any religious (or otherwise) critics of the homosexual lifestyle(s). Opposing the gay agenda is pretty much a thought crime that most folks are already afraid to utter. See vast swaths of Europe and Canada if you don't believe free speech on this issue will fail to be protected.

The culture warriors are either in retreat or have left the field of battle.  

« Last Edit: November 11, 2012, 02:36:51 PM by Ron »
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Perd Hapley

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Re: The next Obama
« Reply #56 on: November 11, 2012, 04:28:32 PM »
The two social issues mentioned aren't being driven by conservatives.

Both issues are being driven by the so called progressives.


Exactly.
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longeyes

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Re: The next Obama
« Reply #57 on: November 11, 2012, 05:13:53 PM »
The two social issues mentioned aren't being driven by conservatives.

Both issues are being driven by the so called progressives.

From what I gather Obamacare will be providing government funding for abortions. The pro abortion contingent are the ones not content with the status quo, they are expanding the practice and using tax dollars to pay for their agenda.

The gay marriage issue is a Trojan horse that will eventually provide the legal foundation to silence any religious (or otherwise) critics of the homosexual lifestyle(s). Opposing the gay agenda is pretty much a thought crime that most folks are already afraid to utter. See vast swaths of Europe and Canada if you don't believe free speech on this issue will fail to be protected.

The culture warriors are either in retreat or have left the field of battle.  



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Lee

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Re: The next Obama
« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2012, 06:04:27 PM »
Good article Millcreek
http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20121108/OPINION04/711089946#Republicans-need-to-take-their-party-back

I Especially like (and agree with) the last three sentences.

It's not true that Republicans needed better candidates. They had excellent contenders. The problem was that the electable ones couldn't leap the lunacy barrier erected by the right wing. They couldn't clinch nominations. Or they withdrew from races in the face of the party base's social nastiness, scientific ignorance and fiscal irresponsibility."

1) I used to enjoy Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Hannity and crew.  Can't stand them now...haven't like them in years. I think they hurt more than help. Acting like thinking adults might help.
2) I won't even go into the science piece...why bother.
3) Spending is spending when you're broke.  Too many sacred cows for the GOP.  You can't support spending trillions propping up third world countries, and call 47% of US citizens leeches.

Ron

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Re: The next Obama
« Reply #59 on: November 11, 2012, 06:28:09 PM »
Did you ever ask yourself why the loonies on the left never damage the Democrats ability to get elected?

I mean really, did you watch the VP debate? Do we need to list the cast of odd characters in the Dem party who keep getting elected?

Seems the spotlight direction, the questions asked, the narrative framed always has the same result.

I'll just leave you with that thought while you engage in your circular firing squad.  
« Last Edit: November 11, 2012, 06:43:34 PM by Ron »
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Perd Hapley

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Re: The next Obama
« Reply #60 on: November 11, 2012, 08:15:55 PM »
Hard to believe people are still peddling this suicidal theory. The GOP should dump its base in favor of some hypothetical cohort of Objectivists that are waiting in the wings.

 Ya know what, go ahead and try it. We've certainly got nothing to lose now. Heck, maybe it will be enough to finally kill the Grand Ole Party, so a more constitutionally-oriented party can get a foot in the door.
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Lee

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Re: The next Obama
« Reply #61 on: November 11, 2012, 09:43:05 PM »
Reality based would also be good.

longeyes

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Re: The next Obama
« Reply #62 on: November 11, 2012, 10:51:45 PM »
The Republican candidates were good enough. What wasn't good enough was the American electorate of 2012.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: The next Obama
« Reply #63 on: November 11, 2012, 11:25:21 PM »
Reality based would also be good.


Yes, hopefully it would also be reality-based, which is to say socially conservative.
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MillCreek

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Re: The next Obama
« Reply #64 on: November 11, 2012, 11:32:59 PM »

Yes, hopefully it would also be reality-based, which is to say socially conservative.

Pity that reality is not shared by the majority of Americans, eh?
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Perd Hapley

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Re: The next Obama
« Reply #65 on: November 11, 2012, 11:48:58 PM »
Pity that reality is not shared by the majority of Americans, eh?


Ah, er, we all share the same reality, man.

But, yeah, too bad that people insist on having social values that don't work well in reality.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: The next Obama
« Reply #66 on: November 11, 2012, 11:51:40 PM »
It's real that if you keep giving free *expletive deleted*it to the Free *expletive deleted*it Army, they will ask for even more *expletive deleted*it.  And they will organize to take more *expletive deleted*it from you by proxied force of government.

That's real.  That's our reality.
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zxcvbob

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Re: The next Obama
« Reply #67 on: November 12, 2012, 12:02:37 AM »
♫"Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
Riding through the land
Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
Without a merry band
He steals from the poor, and gives to the rich
... Stupid bitch." ♫

Moore : What did you sing?
Singers : We sang... "he steals from the poor and gives to the rich"
Moore : (looking down) Wait a tic ... blimey, this redistribution of wealth is trickier than I thought.
[applause]
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Perd Hapley

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Re: The next Obama
« Reply #68 on: November 12, 2012, 12:06:41 AM »
This may be a good place to point out that the last time a political party came out of nowhere to win the presidential election in less than ten years, it was over a social issue.


That being said, the Framers found it necessary to overlook the issue of slavery, in order to agree on a constitution. Things may be so dire that we might choose to overlook abortion, to save the republic. But we know how it worked out in the case of slavery. Or didn't.  =|
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tokugawa

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Re: The next Obama
« Reply #69 on: November 12, 2012, 12:47:04 AM »
Communist infiltration of .gov is a well documented fact.

Let's be specific here, much as you avoid that. What would your Islamic take over look like? Forcing us to bow to Mecca and attend mosques? Banning pork products and dog ownership? Forcing women to wear burqas? What exactly are you envisioning when you say that, in real world terms not some vague allegory?
I will venture a few.
 Various laws against "hate speech" which would include "insulting Islam", allowing sharia law to replace US law in Muslim enclaves, particularly with regard to civil law, removing reference to Islamic based violence with the usual double speak, seeing an increasing influence in the Government, Universities, and general culture.
 basicly, it would look exactly like what is happening in Britain and Europe. All backed by a vast amount of oil money from SA and now Libya.

Regolith

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Re: The next Obama
« Reply #70 on: November 12, 2012, 12:54:12 AM »

Yes, hopefully it would also be reality-based, which is to say socially conservative.

Social conservatism is about as reality-based as fiscal liberalism. Culture changes, and when those changes aren't harmful to society as a whole in any real meaning of the term (i.e. gay marriage), you're only shooting yourself in the foot by restricting it. It is denying reality to not understand that particular concept.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: The next Obama
« Reply #71 on: November 12, 2012, 01:13:14 AM »
Here we go again.  ;/ Nobody is trying to "restrict" gay marriage. The reality-based among us just don't want ersatz marriage to be recognized by law. The unfounded* assertion that they don't harm society is irrelevant, as "it doesn't harm society" is no reason for government to officially condone private behavior. Such "marriages" have no positive effect, either, so government has no place there.

*Unfounded, because we don't yet know what harm it may cause. That being said, I happen to see irrational marriage as a symptom of harm, more than a cause.


Culture changes

We sure learned that on Tuesday.  =|
« Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 01:24:27 AM by fistful »
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Strings

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Re: The next Obama
« Reply #72 on: November 12, 2012, 01:57:24 AM »
I'm going to leave the gay marriage debate alone: I don't feel like going 'round and 'round again. Nobody is changing anyone else's beliefs on that.

Abortion though. That's been an issue brought up since WAY before Obama was in office. And it is usually an issue pushed by social conservatives.

But here's the thing: there is NO movement about it on the horizon at all. None. What that issue DOES give, is the chance for conservative to swallow their feet for the media

They say "Don't interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake". And the Left has done a bang-up job of not only not interrupting the Right, but in actively encouraging and aiding IN that mistake.

Honestly, keeping this issue going gives FAR more help to the Left than anything else could
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Regolith

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Re: The next Obama
« Reply #73 on: November 12, 2012, 04:50:21 AM »
Here we go again.  ;/ Nobody is trying to "restrict" gay marriage. The reality-based among us just don't want ersatz marriage to be recognized by law. The unfounded* assertion that they don't harm society is irrelevant, as "it doesn't harm society" is no reason for government to officially condone private behavior. Such "marriages" have no positive effect, either, so government has no place there.

So long as government hands out special privileges based on marriage status, they have a duty to be non-discriminatory about it, as long both individuals involved are consenting adults. Where is the government's place to deny things like death benefits, survivorship, inheritance, default power of attorney, hospital visitation rights, tax breaks, etc. based on something like the sex of the individuals involved?

The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of the newer generations agree with me, and by ignoring this cultural shift the Republican party is going to find it harder and harder to win elections as they are more and more (and, in this case, justifiably) painted as the party of bigotry and hate. You can't have the government running around peeking into people's bedrooms to make sure they are inserting the correct part into the correct slot and try and claim you are for freedom and smaller government. People will rightly see that as hypocritical, and you lose votes because of it.

And as Strings said, the abortion debate is another problem; not so much as being against abortion in and of itself (there are still enough people that dislike it that it isn't necessarily losing issue), but the way candidates talk about. Akin and that moron in Indiana were probably one of the single biggest reasons that Romney lost. Instead of keeping their traps shut and giving a boilerplate response, they had to ham-fistedly drag religion into it (and/or confirm the complete and uttler lack of "reality based" scientific knowledge, in Akin's case) in such a way as if to confirm every single bit of the idiotic "war on women" meme that the left successfully spread, especially when Romney failed to distance himself adequately.

Barring a massive unexpected cultural shift, there really isn't going to be any movement on how we deal with abortion. As such, Republicans really ought to put it on the back burner and focus in fiscal issues, instead of getting distracted like a bunch of ADHD squirrels and making themselves look like idiots every time it comes up.

The third big problem is immigration; this issue is probably why Florida went blue. Republicans need to figure out a way to approach it that doesn't make the Democrat's job of painting them as xenophobic racists any easier. Actual, effective immigration reform - making immigration easier while enforcing the law more effectively - would be a good start. Being majority practicing Catholics, Hispanics actually tend to be fairly conservative, so if you can figure out a way not to repulse them they can be lured to the Republican party quite easily.

Fix those three problems, and Republicans would find it much easier to actually win elections. The fiscal end of their platform tends to be a net plus for them, but these three issues - all of them social issues - are absolutely killing them nationally.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 05:04:19 AM by Regolith »
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. - Thomas Jefferson

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt the Younger

Perfectly symmetrical violence never solved anything. - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

Ron

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Re: The next Obama
« Reply #74 on: November 12, 2012, 08:21:00 AM »
Ha ha, the bastions of liberty at APS are arguing in favor of government funded abortions and the Feds bestowing special privileges on the pet special interest group of the day.

You can have your Republican party and its insignificance. You guys are just another bump in the road for Obama.

Google "government funded abortion", looking more and more like a fait accompli. You guys can have your dystopia, I'm not voting for it though.

May our chains rest lightly upon us.

http://aclj.org/obamacare/how-obamacare-uses-taxpayer-money-pay-abortions
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.