Bradley Manning whines about being kept in a "cage."

[makattak]

http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/wikileaks_accidentally_publishes_informants_names_20110829/

That was accidental.

The vast majority of what was leaked in previous releases had redacted names.

Manning wasn't the redactor... it was people in the Wikileaks organization doing the redacting.  It was a failure of teamwork on the parts of the leakers.  

Manning screwed up, yes.  I suggest tempering your disgust at the man in context of the information he was trying to get out.

I will not temper my disgust. He recklessly released the names of people who have and are suffering reprisals at the hands of our enemies.

"He didn't mean to" really doesn't hold a great deal of comfort to them. Shoot the bastard.

Oh, and "it's not his fault"? He GAVE those unredacted names to an organization that hates this country. HE RELEASED those names.

[AmbulanceDriver]

18 USC § 2381 - Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

I'm sorry, but to me giving the names of the people that were working with the US to an organization that later released those names to the world (including the enemies of the US) I think falls under the, "giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere," clause there. 

[Fitz]

Remember azredhawk

There was a lot of editing done to the vid wiki leaks released


Here you go

http://collateralmurder.wordpress.com/2010/04/09/wiki-deception-iraq-collateral-murder-rebuttal-scenes-wikileaks-edited-out/


In the context of the whole vid, it's much easier to see the situation as a terrible mistake due to the chaos of combat versus deliberate murder

The army has FRAGGED people for less than what wiki leaks accuse those folks of ... The army's investigation didn't come to the conclusion that this was murder

Bradley Manning is a traitor

[Fitz]

Two journalists and a little girl, and the US government tried to cover it up and gloss it over.

Collateral damage happens. Do watch the full video

[AZRedhawk44]

Fitz, I note that in your 8 minute video there is no mention of the video footage of a little girl, and no admission that 2 Reuters journalists were down there.

I also note that the video does do a good job defending the DOD stance on the matter, otherwise.

There is a lot of skank going on in regards to this issue, and the truth is very probably that both sides have things to be ashamed of.  We could go back and forth on this for quite a while.  I don't want to drag APS into that kind of thing.  I do think that Manning deserves a more objective perspective than he's getting.  We always say the media is left-biased in regards to our views here in APS... I suggest that the coverage of this issue is not necessarily left-biased, but Statist/Protectivist biased.  The Wikileaks org did some bad things, and Manning made mistakes in trusting them to redact later what he sent them, rather than redacting himself and then sending.  He'll pay the price for that naivete.

[Fitz]

There's a link, or at least there was a while back, of a longer vid. Much longer. Is it not there? I pulled it out of favorites and didn't click any of te links again

Google for the full vid. IIRC it's close to an hour

An 8 minute version is probably just highlight to rebut the claims made by the WL vid... I don't think any 8 minute vid would be intended to be exhaustive. The "full vid released by WL wasn't even full.

As for manning, he is a traitor. I stand by that. An intel analyst does NOT do what he does. There are official channels for starting investigations that he did not use. He was a disgruntled soldier with an axe to grind , using excuses about his sexual orientation to curry favor.

For example, do dig up the chat transcripts. He rails against the "mistreatment" he was a victim of. In its totality, a clear picture emerges. To anyone who has been in the army for more than a few months, he's a textbook shitbag, whiner, but the difference is he decided to "show them" by turning traitor

The propaganda victory alone should be enough to convict him of providing aid to the enemy

[Fitz]

Additionally, I'm not making excuses for the actions of the pilots. They effed up. However, The totality of the situation leads me to believe that they didn't intentionally kill innocents

War effing sucks. I have some stories too. It's tough sometimes to know what's the right target

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i've seen the whole vid and remarkably it doesn't support your position azredhawk. its sad the girl got killed  driving your van with your kids in it to rescue folks getting nailed by missiles is poor parenting. journalists who go walkies with guys in combat gotta take their chances.

[AZRedhawk44]

i've seen the whole vid and remarkably it doesn't support your position azredhawk. its sad the girl got killed  driving your van with your kids in it to rescue folks getting nailed by missiles is poor parenting. journalists who go walkies with guys in combat gotta take their chances.

Yeah, but you tend to support cops who engage in curbside dentistry with the folks they arrest.   

[Balog]

Additionally, I'm not making excuses for the actions of the pilots. They effed up. However, The totality of the situation leads me to believe that they didn't intentionally kill innocents

War effing sucks. I have some stories too. It's tough sometimes to know what's the right target

A local sheik gave his daughter a car. Women in Iraq don't traditionally drive, so I think she was probably pretty inexperienced with it. She was out after the (loosely enforced) curfew with her two daughter, about 7 and 10 iirc. Another platoon in my company had set up a road block, flares and wire with a guntruck parked across the street. She saw the block and lost control. I think she meant to hit the brake and got the gas instead. But the guy on the Mk19 just saw a vehicle going to ramming speed toward the side of his truck, and lit them up. We were on reac and had to go clean up afterwards, help them pull what was left of the lady and her little girls out of the car.

War kills a lot of innocent people. Doesn't mean there was malice or even negligence on the part of the folks doing the killing. It's just what war is. I haven't watched the video, and don't know anything about the situation. But in a warzone horrible things happen, and it's not necessarily avoidable.

[roo_ster]

i've seen the whole vid and remarkably it doesn't support your position azredhawk. its sad the girl got killed  driving your van with your kids in it to rescue folks getting nailed by missiles is poor parenting. journalists who go walkies with guys in combat gotta take their chances.

Now it is all coming back...

IIRC, those two reporters were "stringers," local guys doing the jobs the newsies didn't want to do.  If these guys were accused of actually collaborating with the insurgents, it would not be the first case of such...

Yeah, not quite as AZ44 portrayed it.

Yeah, but you tend to support cops who engage in curbside dentistry with the folks they arrest.  

I got no problem shooting the hell outta the enemy and his enablers.  I feel bad for the kiddo.  Maybe daddy ought to have left her home when he decided to help the enemy.

[wmenorr67]

Manning was wrong in doing what he did and he needs to pay for it, but what pisses me off is that his leadership knew he was disgruntled and otherwise and should've pulled his access to the information he got his hands on.  The leadership should also be paying for this in letting him continue to have the access.  I have the same MOS as Manning and if he had been my Soldier he would've been cleaning latrines and not on playing on secure computer systems when his troubles came to light.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Now it is all coming back...

IIRC, those two reporters were "stringers," local guys doing the jobs the newsies didn't want to do.  If these guys were accused of actually collaborating with the insurgents, it would not be the first case of such...

Yeah, not quite as AZ44 portrayed it.


I got no problem shooting the hell outta the enemy and his enablers.  I feel bad for the kiddo.  Maybe daddy ought to have left her home when he decided to help the enemy.

i took some time to watch it all on a friends big screen. i could see how they thought the cam was a weapon,  not the first time thats happened.  then for grins i looked at it on a smaller screen more like what they had in the chopper. real tuff to fault em.
its a lot easier to zomg from an office chair in the air conditioning while sipping a cool drink.  heck its not hard at all when you aren't trying to keep our guys alive.  when we talk about the "whole vid" do we include the ground level tuff shot by the guys who found the wounded kids? and flew  the boy out?
reporters who chose to embed take their chances.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dc1_1184687663

f em

bradley manning?  i'd stick the needle in his vein myself. bring my own works and dope to send him on his way

[Balog]

Not sure what the RoE was, but we had a "any cameras or binos etc pointed at or near us is a valid reason to engage" rule. Same with carrying digging implements after curfew.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i applied the "goldem rule"
would i have shot em? yea

[kgbsquirrel]

Don't have the info that preceded the footage: Why were the choppers there, were they called in on previously spotted hostiles, tip-off, etc. With that in mind, based on just the footage at the start, it appeared two individuals had shoulder slung weapons, and the guy peeking around the corner with (what I'm now assuming was a camera) something on his shoulder looks damn close to having the business end of an RPG pointed at you. The things that give me pause though is that most of the group did not appear to be carrying anything and were pretty much just strolling down the middle of the road. With all that taken into account, I can definitely see the guys in the choppers then and there being fast on the trigger. War is hell.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

he is whining about 7 extra days on suicide watch?  really?  poor baby.
i think its a true sign of restraint that hes got a pulse

someone called his undies panties?