Author Topic: School Shooting at CT Elementary School  (Read 54389 times)

Doggy Daddy

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Re: School Shooting at CT Elementary School
« Reply #150 on: December 16, 2012, 07:14:04 AM »
Nice to come here and find some common ground. ;)

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vaskidmark

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Re: School Shooting at CT Elementary School
« Reply #151 on: December 16, 2012, 07:58:47 AM »
Here's a look at dealing with the kids and  how they handle stuff like this.  http://shtfschool.com/survival-psychology/traumatized-kids/
 

The author is some guy who lived through social/political upheaval that involved shooting at your neighbors because they thought the wrong thing.  He needs work on overcoming his first language's grammar structure but that does not really detract from the readability.  (I apologize for the fact that you are going to be asked to buy his course.  He's in the business of making money off of his personal opinions.  Good gig if you can get it. =D)

"Grief counseling" is not what folks there need.  After losing good employees to PTSD and PTSD-like issues following incidents in the prisons they put together a three-stage mandatory program: 1) go (as soon as possible - no later than 24 hours) as a part of the group (as many as possible of those directly involved - guards, nurses, counselors) to a stress debriefing session - short, sweet, just a place and a chance to hug folks and note that you were glad to still be in one piece and, oh yeah, it sucks that ___ got ___ed.      2) invividual stress debriefing.  This was the time and place for folks who never-ever showed emotions to break down and cry.  It was allowed, but no pressure was put on anybody to try and force them to "let it all go."  3) formal PTSD counseling - with a bias towards group sessions.  Administrative time off was provided for steps 1 and 2, and up to 16 hours was provided for step b3 so people could either come in late or leave early to get to sessions.  Step 3 sessions were covered under the agency Employee Assistyance Plan for up to 10 1-hour individual or 20 group sessions.

What are the chances of those kids and teachers getting anything even remotely like that, instead of "You poor victim" therapy?  Slim to none, if you ask me.

stay safe.
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seeker_two

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Re: School Shooting at CT Elementary School
« Reply #152 on: December 16, 2012, 08:20:19 AM »
I've only heard about a Glock and a Sig so far. If there were more pistols maybe one was an AR based one?

That's my thought....but it might be months before we have a clear picture.

If it was an AR pistol, I wouldn't be surprised if BATFE tries to get all AR/AK- style pistols reclassified as SBR's.....
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280plus

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Re: School Shooting at CT Elementary School
« Reply #153 on: December 16, 2012, 10:19:58 AM »
Yup, the number of minds pretty much destroyed by this is staggering. Not to mention the whole Christmas stigma and how they will be reminded ever year for the rest of their lives. Sad sad stuff.
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Devonai

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Re: School Shooting at CT Elementary School
« Reply #154 on: December 16, 2012, 10:26:36 AM »
I'm having a discussion on Facebook with another one of my Connecticut relatives.  She believes only cops should have guns.  So far I've just been working the angle that I'm a well-trained soldier with a carry permit, so what am I worth to her?  I think I might be providing too narrow of an argument holding myself up as an example, however.

Normally I don't get involved with discussions like that on Facebook, but I thought I would put a human face on the people she wants to disarm.
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280plus

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Re: School Shooting at CT Elementary School
« Reply #155 on: December 16, 2012, 10:36:55 AM »
Yes, my two discussions are with friends. Although now they may not like me anymore.  :rofl:

No, you're argument is quite valid. There are plenty of vets out there who carry and are quite proficient with their weapons. Probably the majority of the people I know that carry are vets, at my range anyways. If I was a school administrator I'd start looking to hire a few teachers with that kind of background and create somewhat of a quick response type team of 3 or 4 for each of my schools. No safes etc just secretly placed individuals in deep cover.

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Devonai

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Re: School Shooting at CT Elementary School
« Reply #156 on: December 16, 2012, 10:42:24 AM »
That reminds me of some of the combat veterans who were present during the VT massacre.  Ready, willing, and able but for a firearm.  No reason vets turned teachers should be any different.

Though I recognize the pointlessness of following discussions like this on Reddit, I was surprised by the large number of people who argue against arming teachers with the idea that they're overworked, underpaid, and unstable.   ???
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280plus

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Re: School Shooting at CT Elementary School
« Reply #157 on: December 16, 2012, 10:59:29 AM »
  Ready, willing, and able but for a firearm. 
Something I never want to be.  ;)

No, I mean vets that do recognize the need and are willing to step up to it.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: School Shooting at CT Elementary School
« Reply #158 on: December 16, 2012, 11:37:13 AM »
Update: Just saw a new report that says four HANDGUNS were recovered inside the school, and one AR-15 style "assault weapon" was recovered in the car he drove to the school.

Now I'm REALLY confused.

New article this morning says ONE handgun and two "high powered" rifles.

???
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Hawkmoon

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Re: School Shooting at CT Elementary School
« Reply #159 on: December 16, 2012, 11:42:52 AM »
I'm having a discussion on Facebook with another one of my Connecticut relatives.  She believes only cops should have guns.  So far I've just been working the angle that I'm a well-trained soldier with a carry permit, so what am I worth to her?  I think I might be providing too narrow of an argument holding myself up as an example, however.

Normally I don't get involved with discussions like that on Facebook, but I thought I would put a human face on the people she wants to disarm.

Send her the link to that NYPD cop, and remind her that this school was (literally) a stone's throw from the fire house, so probably also very near the police station. The cops were there in less than five minutes -- and the event was over in less than three. It is illogical to rely on the police, because they cannot assign one officer as a personal bodyguard to each and every citizen. That means, like it or not, we ARE responsible for our own protection.

Teachers with guns could respond in five seconds, not the five minutes it took the police to get there. "Remember, when seconds count the police are only minutes away."

FWIW, I am also a veteran with a carry permit. And I swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America from all enemies, foreign and domestic. If she wants to cancel the RKBA, she is a domestic enemy.
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Stand_watie

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Re: School Shooting at CT Elementary School
« Reply #160 on: December 16, 2012, 11:43:35 AM »
... I got me a good ration of *expletive deleted* yesterday due to my similar statements on arming and training teachers from some of my "friends" on fB too. Nice to come here and find some common ground. ;)


I guess I've got a higher caliber of facebook friends/family :angel: All I'm seeing are expressions of sympathy and pro RKBA slogans.
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Re: School Shooting at CT Elementary School
« Reply #161 on: December 16, 2012, 01:24:56 PM »

Thanks. That's really interesting.

What about the "bullet-resistant leggings" and the other stuff he was supposed to be wearing? Does anyone know what that stuff was? And he was wearing a PASGT helmet, right?

Reminds me of a time awhile back where some college kids I think sold "bullet-resistant" T-shirts.  They bought a bunch of plain T-shirts and stenciled bullet-resistant on them.  Truth is that all things resist bullets, just some things resist them better than others.
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SteveS

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Re: School Shooting at CT Elementary School
« Reply #162 on: December 16, 2012, 01:32:26 PM »


"Grief counseling" is not what folks there need.  After losing good employees to PTSD and PTSD-like issues following incidents in the prisons they put together a three-stage mandatory program: 1) go (as soon as possible - no later than 24 hours) as a part of the group (as many as possible of those directly involved - guards, nurses, counselors) to a stress debriefing session - short, sweet, just a place and a chance to hug folks and note that you were glad to still be in one piece and, oh yeah, it sucks that ___ got ___ed.      2) invividual stress debriefing.  This was the time and place for folks who never-ever showed emotions to break down and cry.  It was allowed, but no pressure was put on anybody to try and force them to "let it all go."  3) formal PTSD counseling - with a bias towards group sessions.  Administrative time off was provided for steps 1 and 2, and up to 16 hours was provided for step b3 so people could either come in late or leave early to get to sessions.  Step 3 sessions were covered under the agency Employee Assistyance Plan for up to 10 1-hour individual or 20 group sessions.

What are the chances of those kids and teachers getting anything even remotely like that, instead of "You poor victim" therapy?  Slim to none, if you ask me.

stay safe.

This sounds like a good program, at least a good starting point.  Some may need more, but I think it makes sense.

Are you a therapist or have you ever been in therapy?  I can't speak for what is in CT., but not all therapists dole out tissues, hugs, and meaningless sympathy.  In this day and age of limited funds and cost-cutting insurance companies, the emphasis is on 'brief, solution-focused therapy."
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Perd Hapley

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Re: School Shooting at CT Elementary School
« Reply #163 on: December 16, 2012, 02:17:25 PM »
It's times like this I begin to think that there can't possibly be a loving God in this universe

But also, at times like this, we understand the doctrine of hell.


The following words were penned by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, after learning that his son had been wounded in the Civil War. They are, of course, now sung each Christmas.

Quote
I heard the bells on Christmas Day
Their old familiar carols play,
And wild and sweet
The words repeat
Of peace on earth, good-will to men!

And thought how, as the day had come,
The belfries of all Christendom
Had rolled along
The unbroken song
Of peace on earth, good-will to men!

It was as if an earthquake rent
The hearth-stones of a continent,
And made forlorn
The households born
Of peace on earth, good-will to men!

And in despair I bowed my head;
"There is no peace on earth," I said,
"For hate is strong,
And mocks the song
Of peace on earth, good will to men!"

Then pealed the bells more loud and deep;
God is not dead; nor doth he sleep!
The Wrong shall fail,
The Right prevail,
With peace on earth, good-will to men!
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Ron

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Re: School Shooting at CT Elementary School
« Reply #164 on: December 16, 2012, 03:11:39 PM »
Thanks fistful

For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

AZRedhawk44

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Re: School Shooting at CT Elementary School
« Reply #165 on: December 16, 2012, 05:36:32 PM »
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/12/daniel-zimmerman/clackamas-shooter-confronted-by-ccw-holder/

You know why we're not hearing about the Clackamas Mall shooting along with this one in the news?

Because the Clackamas Mall shooter was confronted by a CCW holder and offed himself once confronted.

And the CT shooter kept going until he ran out, because no one confronted him.

Stark truth, for all to see, a week apart from one another.  Armed response by lay folks results in far fewer deaths, than "gun free" zones.
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bedlamite

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Re: School Shooting at CT Elementary School
« Reply #166 on: December 16, 2012, 05:54:50 PM »
And just like that the WBC sideshow injects themselves where they are neither needed nor wanted.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57559468-93/hackers-target-westboro-baptist-church-after-newtown-threat/?=fbwl
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Regolith

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Re: School Shooting at CT Elementary School
« Reply #167 on: December 16, 2012, 06:11:34 PM »
And just like that the WBC sideshow injects themselves where they are neither needed nor wanted.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57559468-93/hackers-target-westboro-baptist-church-after-newtown-threat/?=fbwl


Anyone want to take bets on whether or not there will be an epic beatdown? I think if anything is going to earn them an ass whoopin', it's this.  =|
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Perd Hapley

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Re: School Shooting at CT Elementary School
« Reply #168 on: December 16, 2012, 06:13:40 PM »
Anyone want to take bets on whether or not there will be an epic beatdown? I think if anything is going to earn them an ass whoopin', it's this.  =|


God hates gamblers I'm not a betting man, but if such did occur, there would at least be one bright spot in all of this.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: School Shooting at CT Elementary School
« Reply #169 on: December 16, 2012, 06:17:02 PM »
post article says he used bushmaster only had 2 pistols and left a shotgun in car. he only used pistol on himself.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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280plus

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Re: School Shooting at CT Elementary School
« Reply #170 on: December 16, 2012, 07:28:23 PM »
yup, still conflicting info. This is the first I've heard of a SG. First it was two pistols BM in the car. Now the BM is the primary weapon. Who da eff knows. meanwhile 'bama is here. yay.  ;/

I will resist the urge to pay the WBC people a visit seeing how's they're so close and convenient.
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SteveS

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Re: School Shooting at CT Elementary School
« Reply #171 on: December 16, 2012, 08:36:27 PM »
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/12/daniel-zimmerman/clackamas-shooter-confronted-by-ccw-holder/

You know why we're not hearing about the Clackamas Mall shooting along with this one in the news?

Because the Clackamas Mall shooter was confronted by a CCW holder and offed himself once confronted.

And the CT shooter kept going until he ran out, because no one confronted him.

Stark truth, for all to see, a week apart from one another.  Armed response by lay folks results in far fewer deaths, than "gun free" zones.

It does sound like the CT psycho shot himself when the responders were coming in. If he had met some armed resistance earlier on (private citizen or otherwise) this may have ended with a lot less loss of life.
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Re: School Shooting at CT Elementary School
« Reply #172 on: December 16, 2012, 09:40:43 PM »
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/12/daniel-zimmerman/clackamas-shooter-confronted-by-ccw-holder/

You know why we're not hearing about the Clackamas Mall shooting along with this one in the news?

Because the Clackamas Mall shooter was confronted by a CCW holder and offed himself once confronted.

And the CT shooter kept going until he ran out, because no one confronted him.

Stark truth, for all to see, a week apart from one another.  Armed response by lay folks results in far fewer deaths, than "gun free" zones.

That CCW holder does us all proud. Very calm and well spoken in the interview, and it sounds like he did all the right things given the situation at the mall as he saw it. I don't expect to see much about this in the MSM. The video deserves wide distribution, especially given current events.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: School Shooting at CT Elementary School
« Reply #173 on: December 17, 2012, 01:47:29 AM »
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/12/daniel-zimmerman/clackamas-shooter-confronted-by-ccw-holder/

You know why we're not hearing about the Clackamas Mall shooting along with this one in the news?

Because the Clackamas Mall shooter was confronted by a CCW holder and offed himself once confronted.

And the CT shooter kept going until he ran out, because no one confronted him.

Stark truth, for all to see, a week apart from one another.  Armed response by lay folks results in far fewer deaths, than "gun free" zones.

He didn't run out. Latest reports indicate that he fired about 100 rounds, and that he was carrying a LOT of ammunition. It now appears that he shot himself when he heard the police cars arriving. (How typical.)
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red headed stranger

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Re: School Shooting at CT Elementary School
« Reply #174 on: December 17, 2012, 02:06:57 AM »
yup, still conflicting info. This is the first I've heard of a SG. First it was two pistols BM in the car. Now the BM is the primary weapon. Who da eff knows. meanwhile 'bama is here. yay.  ;/

I will resist the urge to pay the WBC people a visit seeing how's they're so close and convenient.

This doesn't look like an AR in the trunk: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLrxSgkqJQc

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