If this is TRUE?

[Werewolf]

Saudis Teach Intolerance in Schools

Nina Shea's group  the Center for Religious Freedom  examined textbooks used during the past school year, and found the following teachings, which were verified by NBC News:

Jews and Christians are "enemies" of Muslims.
Every religion other than Islam is "false."
"The hour [of Judgment] will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them."
"It's taught that Christians and Jews are the enemy of the Muslim," says Shea. "And that the Muslim must wage jihad in order to spread the faith in battle against the infidel."

What's more, an eighth grade text equates Jews with "apes" and Christian infidels with "swine." A tenth grade text teaches that the life of a Muslim is worth twice that of a non-Muslim.

"This is the ideological foundation for building tomorrows' terrorists," says Shea.

If that article is true how can anyone doubt that the west is in a Holy War with Islam? What will it take to wake people up to the fact that middle eastern children are taught from a young age that Jews and Christians are the enemy?

Another 911?

The mores and values of our culture that we value so highly will inevitably lead to our downfall if we don't open our eyes, smell the *expletive deleted*it and DEAL with it.

But it'll never happen. More's the pity for our grandchildren.

[sarcasm]I think I'll invest in a prayer rug company; at least my grand kids can be rich muslims![/sarcasm]

[The Rabbi]

Yup, thats true.  Sauudi Arabia is the home of Wahhabi Islam, which takes a very untraditional view of Jews and Christians.  They include some other segments of Islam too, btw.  Look at a series called "Terrorism in America" done before 9/11.  You'll see scenes of little kids in summer camp singing "Kill The Jews".  This is in the US, btw, not Saudi Arabia.

[Sindawe]

I've seen similar reports from enough diverse news sources to give some weight to it actually being true.  Sad really, considering that the Islamic world kept the knowledge of the Ancient world from vanishing when Western Rome fell and Europe sank into feudal darkness.  I fear that the in the end only cure for the madness known as Wahhabi Islam will be for the West to bring light to the Islamic world.

Along with heat, soft X-rays, gamma radiation and overpressure.

[charby]

Well as a kid I was brought up to hate the commies, Soviets were going to nuke America at the first opportunity.  Have I killed any? no!

But I think its bad for a religion to preach that other religions are swine and apes. We have a lot of that here in America amongst the different sects of Christianity. Being raised a Catholic I sure took my licks from the Calvinists, Evangelicals and Mormons.

-C

[Mannlicher]

I think before I signed on with this, I would need to see links to some source, other than 'verified by NBC News'.  I dont know Nina Shea, or her group.  Sounds more like a whacko with an agenda to me, but then what do I know.

[Perd Hapley]

Wait a minute, we have a lot of Christian demoninations telling children that the others are animals?  Animals?  Heretics, maybe, but animals?

[Tallpine]

So how come we didn't invade Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq .....?

the Islamic world kept the knowledge of the Ancient world from vanishing when
Western Rome fell and Europe sank into feudal darkness.

You left out the efforts of Irish monks.  Ireland never really suffered from that "feudal darkness"

[The Rabbi]

The Arabs were copying manuscripts and writing extensive commentaries on Aristotle while the Irish were still painting themselves blue.

[Shalako]

Hmmm, I think I'll go put my head in the sand somewhere and just think happy thoughts. It seems to work for a lot of folks.

Or maybe the poor mis-understood Wahabbist would help put my head in the sand for me? What a pal...

[The Rabbi]

Or maybe the poor mis-understood Wahabbist would help put my head in the sand for me? What a pal...

Sure. Where would you like your body buried?

[Art Eatman]

Was just now browsing the editorial page of the local rag, and ran across this referenced URL in the Cal Thomas column:

http://www.memri.org

I haven't checked it out, yet, but per his column it's pertinent to this thread...

Art

[Matthew Carberry]

Sad really, considering that the Islamic world kept the knowledge of the Ancient world from vanishing when Western Rome fell and Europe sank into feudal darkness.  I fear that the in the end only cure for the madness known as Wahhabi Islam will be for the West to bring light to the Islamic world.

Along with heat, soft X-rays, gamma radiation and overpressure.

That's comedy gold sind.

Hopefully not prescient.

[280plus]

If you ask me I'd say extreme fanaticism in ANY religion brings out this kind of ferocity. What was that thing, "The Inquisition". Nope, no extremist religious practices there. It amazes me as to how much blood has been shed in the name of "God" throughout human history. It explains my disdain for organized religion.

[The Rabbi]

If you ask me I'd say extreme fanaticism in ANY religion brings out this kind of ferocity. What was that thing, "The Inquisition". Nope, no extremist religious practices there. It amazes me as to how much blood has been shed in the name of "God" throughout human history. It explains my disdain for organized religion.

So anything that can have "extremism" attached to it should be disdained?

[280plus]

I'm not saying religion should be disdained only the organizations that profess them. For example, I'm not too crazy about the history of the Roman Catholic church what with say the Inquisition and collaborating with the Nazis and more recently all the sexual abuse nightmares. Then I'm not too crazy about what the Muslims did to the Armenians which, as you may know, was when the term Holocaust was first used to describe mass extermination. More currently I think Israel is just as much an aggressor as Palestine. I think they share the burden of the strife in that region. I want to know how these religions can preach peace and love yet kill each other mercilessly over what are essentially the same beliefs. I'm not sure that's what God wants.

[The Rabbi]

I'm not saying religion should be disdained only the organizations that profess them. For example, I'm not too crazy about the history of the Roman Catholic church what with say the Inquisition and collaborating with the Nazis and more recently all the sexual abuse nightmares. Then I'm not too crazy about what the Muslims did to the Armenians which, as you may know, was when the term Holocaust was first used to describe mass extermination. More currently I think Israel is just as much an aggressor as Palestine. I think they share the burden of the strife in that region. I want to know how these religions can preach peace and love yet kill each other mercilessly over what are essentially the same beliefs. I'm not sure that's what God wants.

"Israel" is a state, not a religion.  "Muslims" are practitioners of a religion, not a state.  The Armenians suffered at the hands of the Turks (Muslims), not the Indonesians (also Muslims).
The Catholic Church is roughly 2,000 years old with a following that is worldwide and has been for quite some time.  That somewhere in those 2k years and among those billions of people, some of them may not have been the most savory seems something of a given.  I dont think it discredits the historical sum total of the institution.

[Werewolf]

If you ask me I'd say extreme fanaticism in ANY religion brings out this kind of ferocity. What was that thing, "The Inquisition". Nope, no extremist religious practices there. It amazes me as to how much blood has been shed in the name of "God" throughout human history. It explains my disdain for organized religion.

I am truly surprised that anyone could become incredulous in regards to humans using God as a reason to kill. Groups of people have been killing other groups of people since the first proto-human figured out that a big stick could be used to do it. Each group always has a reason for trying to kill the other. They're always good reasons - at least to the groups doing the killing. No one can reasonably deny that a prime reason for one group attempting to kill another all through mankind's history has been that one group doesn't particularly care for the deity of another. Fact of life.

When it comes to groups killing each other all that's really necessary to justify it is a reason. Absent religion another reason would be found and there would still be groups of humans killing other groups of humans. One group killing another is what humans do; it's who we are; practice makes perfect and we get lots of that when it comes to killing. It's why we're at the top of the food chain and will remain there.

[Perd Hapley]

I'm not saying religion should be disdained only the organizations that profess them.

I think that would be like saying that libertarianism is fine, but any organized libertarian party would be necessarily evil.  Why?

[280plus]

"Israel" is a state, not a religion.  "Muslims" are practitioners of a religion, not a state.  The Armenians suffered at the hands of the Turks (Muslims), not the Indonesians (also Muslims).

I understand all that. Israel is a Jewish state, is it not? I was steering away from the word "Jews" for some reason. As far as the Turks, I was using them as an example of an extremist Muslim  group who massacred thousands quite brutally. I'm saying all relgious orders have little skeletons in their closets yet they preach peace and love for your fellow man. I call that hypocritical. Granted not EVERYBODY in every religion is bad but, like you said, some are. How can you tell who is who? Who is in it truly for the spiritual side and who is in it as a means to an ends? Shall I bring up Scientology?

fistful, I'm saying they MIGHT be evil. That's enough for me.

Werewolf, maybe amazed was the wrong word. I'm thinking like disgusted or disheartened might be a better description of how I feel.

[Perd Hapley]

fistful, I'm saying they MIGHT be evil. That's enough for me.

The ASPCA might be evil.  

Big Brothers, Big Sisters might be evil.  

The IPSC might be evil.  

The International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers might be evil.  

The Daughters of the American Revolution might be evil.  

The St. Louis Auto Dealers Association might be evil.  

The Model Train Hobbyists Political Action Committe might be evil.  

The Salt Lake City Thai Boxing League might be evil.  

The Ladies' Home Journal Scrapbooking Club might be evil.  

Weight Watchers might be evil.  

Oprah's Book Club is definitely evil.  

The IRS is definitely evil.

Have I made my point?

I think you may have missed Werewolf's real point, which is best summarized with this excerpt:

Absent religion another reason would be found and there would still be groups of humans killing other groups of humans. One group killing another is what humans do; it's who we are; practice makes perfect and we get lots of that when it comes to killing.

Although, that doesn't excuse a religion that actually teaches religious violence.

[The Rabbi]

I understand all that. Israel is a Jewish state, is it not? I was steering away from the word "Jews" for some reason. As far as the Turks, I was using them as an example of an extremist Muslim  group who massacred thousands quite brutally. I'm saying all relgious orders have little skeletons in their closets yet they preach peace and love for your fellow man. I call that hypocritical. Granted not EVERYBODY in every religion is bad but, like you said, some are. How can you tell who is who? Who is in it truly for the spiritual side and who is in it as a means to an ends? Shall I bring up Scientology?

"Jewish" is not a religion.  What Israel does is no reflection on what Judaism teaches or on the Jewish religion.  "The Turks" are not an extremist Muslim group but an ethnic group speaking a related language and generally practicing some form of Islam.  Judging Islam based on the Turkish massacre of the Kurds in the 1920s is like judging Southern Baptists based on the behavior of William Calley and his troops at My Lai.

[jefnvk]

I heard on Some Radio Program that most of the scholars of the Islamic Golden Age were Christians and Jews.  Does anyone know if that's true?

Don't know if its true or not, but it wouldn't suprise me.  There was a time when Islam was the (most) tolerant religion.  While Christians and others wern't exactly treated as first class citizens, they were treated much better than a Muslim in Rome would have been.

There are accounts of Christians (Coptic I believe?) fleeing with their Muslim neighbors when the Crusaders rolled into town, as they prefered their second class status with the Muslims to whatever the incoming Christians had in mind for them.

[280plus]

I thought to be a Jew is to practice Judaism and to practice Judaism is to be a Jew. Are you saying none of the problems between Palestine and Israel are based in religious differences? As far as the Turks I am not blaming or judging ALL of Islam for their crimes, I'm merely trying to say by way of example that the big three religions all have periods in their history when their practitioners, or at least a portion of them, have behaved in less than a benevolent nature even though they all teach benevolence. I have an issue with that. I have an issue with the Catholic church aiding and abetting pedophiles and covering it up. I also have an issue with them aiding and abetting Nazis and helping them escape justice. And I'll bet a lot of money changed hands in the process. I'm not blaming the religion. I'm blaming those that have taken the religion and used it to aid themselves in promoting or protecting behavoir that is evil in the eyes of God. What's one of the Commandmants? Thou shall not kill. That is a Commandmant from God. Don't all religions contain similar mandates? Yet they get broken all the time and in some cases in the name of religion. I call that hypocritical.

Fist, I fully understand Werewolf's point and I agree with him. I just wish it wasn't so. I THINK I understand yours. At least to where I agree with pretty much everything you've listed there. All those things, or at least SOME of the people involved with them most definitely might be evil. Therefore I have nothing to do with any of them. So maybe it's not just RELIGIOUS organizations I disdain. It is ALL organizations. Don't GET me started on the Boy Scouts, or Little League.

And again, it's not the concept of Boy Scouts or Little League that I have a problem with. Just SOME of the people who are involved.

[The Rabbi]

I thought to be a Jew is to practice Judaism and to practice Judaism is to be a Jew. Are you saying none of the problems between Palestine and Israel are based in religious differences? As far as the Turks I am not blaming or judging ALL of Islam for their crimes, I'm merely trying to say by way of example that the big three religions all have periods in their history when their practitioners, or at least a portion of them, have behaved in less than a benevolent nature even though they all teach benevolence. I have an issue with that. I have an issue with the Catholic church aiding and abetting pedophiles and covering it up. I also have an issue with them aiding and abetting Nazis and helping them escape justice. And I'll bet a lot of money changed hands in the process. I'm not blaming the religion. I'm blaming those that have taken the religion and used it to aid themselves in promoting or protecting behavoir that is evil in the eyes of God. What's one of the Commandmants? Thou shall not kill. That is a Commandmant from God. Don't all religions contain similar mandates? Yet they get broken all the time and in some cases in the name of religion. I call that hypocritical.
.

I know people who are not Jewish who are practicing Judaism and I know people who are Jewish who arent practicing it.  Some of the latter are my relatives.

The problems with the Palestinians and Israels largely transcend religious issues.  At this point they entirely transcend them.

I also have issues with Nazis, genocide, and pedophilia.  I dont know many folks who dont.  But I dont think it condemns either everyone who practices those religion or the religion itself.
There are NRA members in favor of gun control.  Does that make the NRA worthless and evil?
There are IDPA members and IPSC members who beat their wives.  That doesnt make those organizations evil (OK, maybe it does with IPSC).
You seem perfectly content to smear the broad brush stroke over any organization or philosophy that hasnt been 100% squeaky clean for its entire history.  You fail to see the equally good things those movements have done, things that have bettered mankind in ways that would be otherwise impossible.  How many Catholic hospitals are there?  How many Jewish hospitals.  How many clinics for poor people in the 3rd world staffed by people who could easily make a good living doing something a lot less stressful.  I could go and on with this.  But you ignore all of it and merely look at the atrocities and condemn all religions.

[roo_ster]

You seem perfectly content to smear the broad brush stroke over any organization or philosophy that hasnt been 100% squeaky clean for its entire history.  You fail to see the equally good things those movements have done, things that have bettered mankind in ways that would be otherwise impossible.  How many Catholic hospitals are there?  How many Jewish hospitals.  How many clinics for poor people in the 3rd world staffed by people who could easily make a good living doing something a lot less stressful.  I could go and on with this.  But you ignore all of it and merely look at the atrocities and condemn all religions.

TR pretty much nailed it.  Humans are corrupt & imperfect, thus any organization that consists of humans will be imperfect, despite all efforts to the contrary.  I'd be willing to bet some schmoe who worked at the March of Dimes took advantage of some kid or donor.  Same thing with regard to some organization dedicated to helping fluffy puppies.

Welcome the the reality of humanity, in all its contradictory glory and ignominy.

The only way to avoid the imperfections of humanity is to go off & live in a cave by yourself...but then you'd still have to put up with your imperfect self and the rationalizations for behavior you know is wrong but do anyway.