3D Printing - AR Mags

[AZRedhawk44]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q10Jz2qIog8

"Tastes like Dianne Feinstein's lunch."

http://defcad.org/ar-15-magazine-30-round-mag/

Awesome.


Check out all the stuff they have!

http://defcad.org/browse/

AR-10 lower
AR-15 lower (two different variants, reinforced deliberately for use with low grade 3d printer plastic)
VZ-58 receiver
10-22 receiver
1911 frame
Sig P228 frame
Beretta 92 frame
STI frame

[zahc]

The interest in this is pretty pointless. The law specifically makes it illegal to manufacture (sometimes possess) the magazines. It doesn't matter how they are manufactured. Coming up with a new method of manufacturing, is not some sort of loophole. It's possible to illegally manufacture these magazines any way you want.

[AZRedhawk44]

The interest in this is pretty pointless. The law specifically makes it illegal to manufacture (sometimes possess) the magazines. It doesn't matter how they are manufactured. Coming up with a new method of manufacturing, is not some sort of loophole. It's possible to illegally manufacture these magazines any way you want.

But the more ubiquitous the method of manufacture is, the more pointless the law becomes.

It becomes as rational as outlawing pointy sticks.

[Fitz]

The interest in this is pretty pointless. The law specifically makes it illegal to manufacture (sometimes possess) the magazines. It doesn't matter how they are manufactured. Coming up with a new method of manufacturing, is not some sort of loophole. It's possible to illegally manufacture these magazines any way you want.

I disagree, 3d printing makes it EASIER to manufacture.

Who gives a *expletive deleted*it about the legality. The point is, it makes it easier for folks to avoid statist, unconstitutional laws.

[AZRedhawk44]

With ABS 3D printing, you'll eventually see entirely new novel receiver designs come about that redirect the recoil forces away from the traditional weak points in taking metallic designs and constructing them of plastic.

Zip guns will be freaking amazing.

I only have 1 spare barrel right now, for an M14 in .308, but I'm wondering what could be rigged up to mate that barrel to an alternative design receiver.  Yes, you still need metal locking lugs and bolt face to secure the chamber during a rifle cartridge's firing.  But lower pressure handgun rounds?  The 10/22 receiver on there is quite intriguing.  A little filing/milling/drilling on an aluminum block and you can get a bolt.  I'm wondering how long a plastic bolt might last, though.  I think a 10/22 plastic receiver with a plastic bolt and a regular barrel could safely have the trigger yanked by string for several hundred rounds as a test, then examined for longevity.

[Gewehr98]

That would be one hell of a huge plastic 10/22 bolt. 

Blowback autoloaders depend on bolt MASS to keep chamber pressures in check.

That's why the bolts are always steel, vs. aluminum or plastic, be it a Thompson, Uzi, MAC-10, Hi-Point, or 10/22.

[zahc]

So put a few lead fishing weights in it.

Should be no problem; the 3D printing technique specifically allows for internal voids. Just print half, place weights, print the other half.

Remember the nylon 66?

[Gewehr98]

Not the best analogy.

The Nylon 66 had a steel external receiver shell, in conjunction with a steel bolt for the blowback action and a steel striker to fire the rounds.

I'd lean towards strengthened composite laminates or modified ceramics. 

 

[T.O.M.]

I think that the real interesting part of all of this is that this technology takes skill completely out of the equation when we're talking about manufacturing gun parts, or anything.  To build a working firearm right now, you need machine tools, maybe some ability to cast parts and/or pieces, and a lot of skill in terms of building the working firearm.  With this system, you could "print" out a magazine, or whatever, use the weapon, leave it (as it would be comepletely untracable) and"print" a new one next time you needed one.  Yeah, they could make it illegal to make gun parts, but there are lots of things which are illegal to do using comuters, but somehow the criminals tend to get around those laws...

[Perd Hapley]

But the more ubiquitous the method of manufacture is, the more pointless the law becomes.

It becomes as rational as outlawing pointy sticks.

This. We're not talking about a legal loophole, here. This is just another example of gun control affecting only the law-abiding. Anyone who wants a "high capacity" mag for criminal purposes can print one when he needs it.

[AZRedhawk44]

I think that the real interesting part of all of this is that this technology takes skill completely out of the equation when we're talking about manufacturing gun parts, or anything.  To build a working firearm right now, you need machine tools, maybe some ability to cast parts and/or pieces, and a lot of skill in terms of building the working firearm.  With this system, you could "print" out a magazine, or whatever, use the weapon, leave it (as it would be comepletely untracable) and"print" a new one next time you needed one.  Yeah, they could make it illegal to make gun parts, but there are lots of things which are illegal to do using comuters, but somehow the criminals tend to get around those laws...

What is the justification for limiting the manufacture of firearms only to "the skilled?"

I guarantee you that the guys who work on the floor of the MagPul factory don't know jack about the firing sequence dynamics of an AR-15.  They know how to push the "go" button on the big machine, and clear out gobs of plastic when malfunctions happen, and how to put follower, spring, and floorplate on a mag body.

And "untraceable" is not quite right.  Yes, it wouldn't be serialed in some central database, or even remote separated DB's like each manufacturer or distributor.  But the plastic melt temp will be unique for each 3D printer, the feed velocity will be slightly different, the beading structure of the entire mass, the brittleness will be unique, and so on.  Once they found the 3D printer that created it, I bet a strong case could be made that this gun came from (or didn't come from, for a defensive angle) this 3D printer.

[DustinD]

You can easily change the code that is used to make parts to throw off forensics, or even change the extruder nozzle size. Other than that you just need a source of plastic, and any other chemical that comes in contact with the weapon, that can't be traced back to you. People are making home extruders that let you recycle parts or scrap plastic, so getting cheap untraceable plastic will always be easy.

[Balog]

What is the justification for limiting the manufacture of firearms only to "the skilled?"

I guarantee you that the guys who work on the floor of the MagPul factory don't know jack about the firing sequence dynamics of an AR-15.  They know how to push the "go" button on the big machine, and clear out gobs of plastic when malfunctions happen, and how to put follower, spring, and floorplate on a mag body.

And "untraceable" is not quite right.  Yes, it wouldn't be serialed in some central database, or even remote separated DB's like each manufacturer or distributor.  But the plastic melt temp will be unique for each 3D printer, the feed velocity will be slightly different, the beading structure of the entire mass, the brittleness will be unique, and so on.  Once they found the 3D printer that created it, I bet a strong case could be made that this gun came from (or didn't come from, for a defensive angle) this 3D printer.

Wrong on several levels. Obviously there is a difference in required skill between a dude on an assembly line and a person making their own from scratch gun at home. Untraceable does not mean unable to be demonstrated to have come from a certain printer, if the printer is captured and examined.

[T.O.M.]

My points...

on the skill set...I have no metal working skills at all.  You could give me all the raw paterials to make a gun, and a step by step guide, and I'd get it wrong because I don;t know how to machine metal, weld metal, etc.  And to do it right, and well, that's a skill I don't have.  On the other hand, clicking the print icon, I can do.  And, so could anyone.

Second, on the traceable issue, sure, if you have the printer and the product, you could link the two. But, I'm picturing a scenario where investigators find a plastic gun, or plastic piences, made on a printer.  Unless there was a unique mark of some kind put on it during the print process, it's just a hunk of plastic.  There is no where for you to go to look for where it was made.  A guy in his garage with a laptop and a printer could make half a dozen mags, pack up the printer and laptop, and take it back to work the next morning. 

i know the technology isn't quite there yet, but it's coming...

[Declaration Day]

I know the technology isn't quite there yet, but it's coming...

Exactly.  This technology is in its infancy, at least at the consumer level. 

Were the first computers reliable?  Were the first cars safe?  No.

Legislation can't even stop the pirating of software, music or movies.  Printed guns and magazines will be no different.