When Did Victory become Polically Incorrect?

[Werewolf]

Think about THIS...

When a nation, people or culture decides to go to war they aren't doing it for fun. War SUCKS! It's the option of last resort. Those going to war do it because they don't see any other way to resolve what ever issues they have with their opposition. And it used to be that when you go to war you do it with your all and the intent to WIN!

Up to and including WWII every nation, people or culture that's gone to war thoughout the history of mankind understood that going to war unless you did it with victory as your intent meant you just didn't do it.

But now a days it seems like victory isn't an option. Every time something flairs up somewhere the politicians and do gooders jump in and get it stopped - and to what end? What ever problem existed that caused the war isn't resolved - it just goes to sleep for a while and festers like a boil, eventually to erupt at some later point in time and the whole cycle is repeated. End result - people keep dying for a lot longer than they would if the original problem was just resolved in the first place.

I just don't get it.

Do politicians and diplomats justify their existence by stopping wars that they know full well will eventually flair up again. Is it all about job security for them. Is it PR BS they use to tell the voters how important they are since they stop wars?

OR are the bleeding heart liberal idealists among us so short sighted that they can't see all they're doing is prolonging the killing forever at worst or for many years longer than necessary at bes because the problem takes much much longer to resolve because of their interference.

OR maybe its all about collateral damage and protecting innocents? WAR IS HELL! People die, infrastructure is destroyed, families disrupted and cultures are sometimes eliminated. It is entirely reasonable to want to stop war quickly to protect innocents. Except that's short sighted because UNLESS the main issue is resolved then the innocents continue to die during the next inevitable flareup and on and on and on for as long as cease fires keep getting called and the war keeps flaring up.

SO JUST WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH FIGHTING A WAR TO ITS CONCLUSION AND RESOLVING FINALLY WHAT EVER THE ISSUE THAT CAUSED THE WAR IN THE FIRST PLACE?

[brimic]

Its the same breed of people who have decided that scores will not be kept in kids' sporting events because they are all winners, are all equal, and all need to have their artificial self esteem stroked constantly.  I won't even begin to go into the ideas of moral equivalency.

[Lo.Com.Denom]

I dunno, we only remember diplomacy when it fails. When diplomacy works and everyone goes home muttering "well he started it...!", history forgets the incident.

[Werewolf]

I dunno, we only remember diplomacy when it fails. When diplomacy works and everyone goes home muttering "well he started it...!", history forgets the incident.

Got an example of that ever happenin'???

[grampster]

Unfortunately, in most quarters of the world moral equivalancy is the operative notion.  Most civilized countries today, even in the West, are more Socialist than not.  Socialism is a left wing notion.  Using the present day definition of Liberal, one is conftonted with thought processes that are emotion driven rather that reasoned.  Socialists tend to be emotion driven.

Now, everyone has emotional responses; it's part of being human.  But when emotions drive decision making, then you get political correctness, values neutral philosophy, success born guilt and moral equivilance.  Everybody is the same, thus if we just sit down and talk through this thing, we can settle it.  The modern liberal has no core belief in the dark side.  Most of them don't believe in evil, only bad behavior because of the negative influence of others.  No one is responsible for his actions as he is only reflecting his experiences with the "failure of society".

These notions come about because Man has difficulty in grasping what history teaches about human behavior.  We can blame the educational system, but don't forget who let it get that way.  The modern liberal believes that he has risen above and has moved beyond his history.  That may well be true for some.  The problem is most of the rest of humanity has not progressed and still mirrors human behavior of the past.  A good deal of the world is still caught up in Tribal Feudalism with a little despotic religion thrown in.  Wahabbist Islam is a very good example.  It's also not lost on most that when you see so called christian cults, they tend to be feudal tribal set ups as well.  Jim Jones is a good example.

Wars are not fought to be won today because the aforementioned deluded ones in the civilized world are either in charge or are in thrall to those that think the way I've just described.  Apparently about 50% of those that actually participate, even in very small ways by uninformed voting, feel that way in America.  There are not many places left in the civilized world that have a world view that is not sullied by the delusions of the Left.

[roo_ster]

You have to remember, this fetish for cease-fires and concern for collateral damage is selective.

When swarthy-skinned fellows war on darker-skinned fellows, a few statements are made...then everybody shrugs and goes about their business (Arab muslims vs black muslims in Darfur).

When Light(er/ish)-skinned fellows war on darker-skinned fellows, all hades breaks loose in an attempt to STOP IT NOW!!!  (Israel or USA vs miitant islam).

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

The bleeding hearts think they can eliminate war and strife and suffering simply by wishing it away.  War is unnecessary.  The appropriate response is to sit down with these murderous savages and talk out our differences.  They'll understand.  They'll stop killing us.  They'll like us.  Utopia on earth, kumbayah.

Victory in this war would be the worst possible outcome for the bleeding hearts.  Our victory would prove irrefutably that war, not negotiation, was the proper and effective solution to these problems.

One way to prevent their having to accept this ugly idea is to try to end the war before we win it, by censoring any notion of victory.  Thus they make it politically incorrect to do what it takes to achieve victory.

[Matthew Carberry]

And our "more evolved" leaders refuse to read Mao's Little Red Playbook where he explicitly talks about using ceasefires as opportunities to rearm and reorganize.

The North Vietnamese  leadership wrote after the war how they would enter "negotiations" during the innumerable ceasefires with no intention of negotiating anything but merely to gain access to the world press to push their propaganda position.

Cease-fires can only work if both sides enter them in good faith.  There's no evidence those who fight us (the civilized world) will ever do that until they are dragged bleeding to the table after being thoroughly and repeatedly beaten on the battlefield.

[Guest]

This just in: Isreal agrees to a 2 day ceasefire of air ops.  

speak of the devil.  looks like the hezzies read Mao.

[Lo.Com.Denom]

Got an example of that ever happenin'???

The Cuban missile crisis springs to mind...

[Werewolf]

Got an example of that ever happenin'???

The Cuban missile crisis springs to mind...

Technically - I guess I'll give you that one with the caveat that it was essentially negotiated by a journalist and a russian spy. Both sides knew that the world was on the brink of nuclear destruction. The Russians were'n't stupid and certainly weren't crazy - wouldn't do 'em any good to put missiles in Cuba if the world would shortly become a a burned out cinder. AND Kennedy was crazy enough to push the button - I imagine the russians knew that too. Hmmmm.... maybe the russians did off 'im for makin' 'em look bad?

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

This just in: Isreal agrees to a 2 day ceasefire of air ops.  

speak of the devil.  looks like the hezzies read Mao.

Israel can play that game too.  It takes time to identify targets, plan missions, carry out attacks, repair and re-arm the planes, and rest the pilots.  It may well be that Israel didn't intend to send out any bombers for a day or two anyway.  Declaring the cease fire allows Israel to regroup, while at the same time gaining some credibility in the international political community for showing retraint and attempting to end the hostilities.