Author Topic: Big Boy Rules?  (Read 5146 times)

geronimotwo

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Re: Big Boy Rules?
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2013, 07:37:46 PM »
Who the OP or the Chinese guy?   :P

i was going with the op.  i have no desire to get a new hairtyle, thank-you.   although some of the op's content was questionable, i would enjoy that type of training (hopefully with a qualified instructor).
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lupinus

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Re: Big Boy Rules?
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2013, 03:27:26 PM »
I don't see an issue with the training method in the video. Sometimes, we tend to forget that when the bad juju hits the fan situations likely WONT be ideal. And there may not be a direct clear line of fire to stop a threat.

As to the ridged robotic look left look right, it's a failing people fall in to. Whether it's tactics or, as DD was kind enough to point out, other situations. And why I hate the concept of ridged robotic training to do EXACTLY this thing, this EXACT way, EVERY time. It's stupid. For reasons and examples already mentioned. Any training that is robotic with no adjustment based on scenario is stupid. 

Look at the main training here. Caller is giving out a direction, you don't know what it'll be. This is applying tactics in a free thinking effective manner. You know the moves, you know the positions, and you have to respond to input (call in this case) and react accordingly to use them in an effective combination.

But then they fall back to robotics with small things like the after shot look around. I actually follow that channel on youtube, they have some good videos. But you watch several and you'll notice their look around is completely robotic. ALWAYs left, then right. Always about the same speed. It's 100% the same each and every time.

Well, how about it you just engaged a target in a narrow hallway? You've trained to be a robot and look left to right. Well, there's a wall to your left and right, what good is it doing you? Why not check six? How about a parking garage stair well? Well, there's empty air to your left and right, why not maybe scan up and down or to your six?

How about the gun? Notice most of them point the gun straight forward or forward with a slight up angle. They NEVER do it different. Well...what about when your situation calls for you not doing that due to innocents in that general direction? Yes, you just fired three shots in that direction, but those three shots when into bad dude. Why not point straight up in a safe position now that the threat is neutralized?

How about the guy that was second on the firing line early in the video when the line is first doing the drill to go around folks? He always points his gun straight up, and does a left to right scan. Well....how about when someones whose trained like that shoots an intruder in their living room and proceeds to do exactly that. Pointing it right at the second floor bedroom with their kid in it? Opps, ND while your adrenaline is rushing now maybe means you just put a a round into that second floor and into a family member.

Orrrrrrr, the guy that always points his gun down? Well, how about if you defend yourself in a supermarket and proceed to do your point gun down scan left right robot training? Congratulations, your robotic training just had you point your gun at your scared shitless kid clutching daddies leg for dear life.

Not trying to be overly critical of any one particular person in the vid or their method, point is simply that robotic training in asinine. And the whole post shot gun hold and looky around is one of the most prevalent I see where people will do EXACTLY the same thing every single time.
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roo_ster

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Re: Big Boy Rules?
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2013, 04:33:38 PM »
To do what they were doing, they did not need meatsacks.  The human barriers did nothing a cardboard silhouette could not do.  Using humans that way added zero to the training, while at the same time adding risk.  Increasing risk with zero upside is not what I want in a trainer.

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Big Boy Rules?
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2013, 11:53:42 PM »
To do what they were doing, they did not need meatsacks.  The human barriers did nothing a cardboard silhouette could not do.  Using humans that way added zero to the training, while at the same time adding risk.  Increasing risk with zero upside is not what I want in a trainer.


That's the part that made me wonder.
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De Selby

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Re: Big Boy Rules?
« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2013, 04:14:57 AM »
Cue "shoot him to the ground!" videos.....I'm sure I saw that one here a couple of years ago
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Big Boy Rules?
« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2013, 07:03:26 AM »
Cue "shoot him to the ground!" videos.....I'm sure I saw that one here a couple of years ago

  :lol:
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Big Boy Rules?
« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2013, 10:43:16 AM »
While I agree that in a real shooting situation, you may have to move in/around other people to engage a threat safely, I'm not sure what is gained in this training scenario by using live barricades instead of just barrels or extra targets. 
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freakazoid

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Re: Big Boy Rules?
« Reply #32 on: May 17, 2013, 10:49:36 AM »
To do what they were doing, they did not need meatsacks.  The human barriers did nothing a cardboard silhouette could not do.  Using humans that way added zero to the training, while at the same time adding risk.  Increasing risk with zero upside is not what I want in a trainer.



Wasn't this already covered on the first page?
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roo_ster

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Re: Big Boy Rules?
« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2013, 10:55:41 AM »
Cue "shoot him to the ground!" videos.....I'm sure I saw that one here a couple of years ago

I had forgotten about that guy.  My mirth is alloyed by the fear that someone bought and watched his videos and took him seriously. 

Then there was (is?) the "point at target with your index finger, pull trigger with ring finger" guy at THR.  He had videos, too.

PT Barnum in the house.

Wasn't this already covered on the first page?

Yeah, but folks seem to have forgotten and are coming up with more & more complicated scenarios justifying the trainer.  Ockham's Butterknife is hard at work.
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roo_ster

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Big Boy Rules?
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2013, 03:04:20 PM »
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/03/robert-farago/hidden-training-dangers-peer-pressure-and-blind-obedience/

I don't know about this one. Given the slip-and-fall concern, I guess it might make sense to limit it to one shooter on the line in those conditions. But the old adage is; if it ain't rainin', you ain't trainin'. Certainly, some kind of training in inclement weather is a good idea.

FWIW, the first time I qualified with an M16, there was a light rain, and I was belly-down in a puddle of cold water. Loved it!  =)
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife