Author Topic: Need price check help  (Read 3713 times)

Balog

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Need price check help
« on: May 27, 2013, 12:50:26 AM »
I'm looking at trading into a 1986 F350 dually. Four door crew cab with 80,000 miles, new tires, dual tanks and set up for a fifth wheel. A few cosmetic issues and a damage rear fender well on one side but overall seems straight and clean. Around how much would be a fair trade value?
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AmbulanceDriver

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Re: Need price check help
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2013, 01:01:05 AM »
gas or diesel? engine size if gas?  Manual or automatic?
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Re: Need price check help
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2013, 01:28:41 AM »
I'll give you $500 USD right now via USPS money order, priority mail.
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Re: Need price check help
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2013, 09:43:20 AM »
Man, I wish I could fall into something like that.

Be sure it isn't 180K or 280k or 380k miles.  I think that vintage only had 100k spedos.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Need price check help
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2013, 10:29:58 AM »
$2500-3000.  KBB online only goes back to 1993, but their "Fair Condition" value for a F350 s-cab for that year is $3600, so knock off a bit for the extra years and fender damage.

If it's diesel then it's the early non-turbo engine and is so pathetically under-stressed it will run practically forever. I know several people with 300k+ miles on theirs.  The downside is that it's also so pathetically under-powered it will struggle with even modest loads.

If it's the 460, then it's a good puller, but very, Very, VERY thirsty.  Expect 5-6 MPG pulling a big travel trailer and 10-12 unloaded.  Dad had both 86 and a 90 models that were F350 4wd 460-powered.  Neither would top 6 mpg when pulling their 34' travel trailer.  I can't remember when they switched the 460 to fuel injection, but I think it was 1987.  If the truck you're looking at is carbureted, you can do some pretty nifty things with the engine to make them real stump-pullers (check out 460Ford.com for all the 460 hop-up tricks you could ever want).  The fuelie engines are harder to tweak given the speed density injection system from that model is notoriously intolerant to changes.  FYI - For about the same price as the machine work needed for a basic 0.030-over rebuild you can buy a drop-in 4.3 crank stroker kit.  This means that for only a little more than the cost of a basic rebuild you have a 521 that looks bone stock but will easily top 550 lb-ft torque with a couple of carefully chosen parts (namely the cam) and careful wrenching.

Brad
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 10:36:40 AM by Brad Johnson »
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Balog

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Re: Need price check help
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2013, 01:00:12 PM »
Oops, sorry it is the 460 and an automatic. How would I tell if the odometer has rolled over or not?

For comparison, here are a couple other trade offers I've received: 92 Chevy 1500 Scottsdale 4x4 regular cab 350 auto 123k miles. 97 Ford Explorer XLT 4x4 4.0 V6 auto 188k tow package.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Need price check help
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2013, 01:20:49 PM »
Oops, sorry it is the 460 and an automatic. How would I tell if the odometer has rolled over or not?

For comparison, here are a couple other trade offers I've received: 92 Chevy 1500 Scottsdale 4x4 regular cab 350 auto 123k miles. 97 Ford Explorer XLT 4x4 4.0 V6 auto 188k tow package.

No way to tell on odo rollover.  If it's an automatic then it's the E4OD.  It's bulletproof presuming some basic level of preventive maintenance.  The E4OD is an outgrowth of the sledgehammer-reliable C6, and I've seen bone-stock junkyard C6's hold in excess of 600 hp without so much as a whimper.  The E4OD is essentially an electronically controlled C6 with an added overdrive stack.  Many of the internal parts will even interchange.

Almost forgot, plan on the 460 using a good bit of oil.  460s of that era had piss-poor valve seals and would begin leaking oil through the exhaust side.  Not a performance issue, though the excessive oil use will eventually kill the converters if it's still so equipped.  Fortunately valve stem seals are an easy fix and the seals are cheap.  The expense will be shop time, but it can be done in a couple hours and doesn't require removing the heads.  It does require removal of the rockers, and a cylinder pressurizer, but other than that it's just time.

The other two choices, I don't know.  The Chevy will likely need the 4wd actuator replaced, that is if it hasn't been already.  The linear actuators are a known problem.  Tallpine had a thread about one on his "new" truck just recently.  Replacement motor-driven actuators are readily available, as are cable operated manual conversion kits.  Again, easy fix, relatively inexpensive, and it can be done in your driveway with basic tools.  The engine is probably a garden variety TBI 350.  Kinda hard to go wrong there.  IIRC it's the L05 variant which I think was used from the late 80s up until they introduced the Vortec motors in 1996.

The 4.0 in the Explorer is a good engine, about as solid as you can get.  Ford made a gazillion of them.  I guess it would really depend on how well it's been maintained.  Their only real weak point was the oiling system, and only because the way they oiled made the lifters and upper valvetrain somewhat sensitive to oil contamination.  If it's been serviced regularly you're probably okay.  If you hear excessive valve train noise, steer clear as it likely needs new lifters.  Expensive fix.  Aside from that, they're pretty hard to hurt.  I've never messed with the rest of the driveline in that vintage Explorer so I don't know anything about the tranny, transfer case, etc.  The rear axle should be a Ford 8.8 which is a proven commodity, though high mileage units may need new bearings or axle seals.  Again, easy fix and parts are everywhere as variants of this axle were (and still are) used universally by Ford in all live-axle rear-drive applications except Super Duty trucks.

What are you going to tow?  I guess that's the big question.  If it's the occasional utility trailer then any of the choices would probably be fine.  If it's a larger rig, go for the full size trucks.

Brad
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 02:56:57 PM by Brad Johnson »
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
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French G.

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Re: Need price check help
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2013, 01:59:04 PM »
Well, on the E4OD I beg to differ, but I've got a rebuild manual for free if you ever want it. I also have a rebuilt tranny with only 25K on it in a now junk truck. They are good transmissions, but keep them cool, aux cooler if you are going to tow. As compared to the other trades I say get the F-350 now.
Craiglist here has diesels of that vintage still in the 6K range.

On the OD rollover, good luck, just ask lots of questions. Very common to see junkyard inventory writing still on major components that were replaced. Look for excessive wear, if they say 80K and the rubber is completely worn off the brake pedal that's a little  ??? Carfax can help there if it was retitled, should show at what mileages it was retitled.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Need price check help
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2013, 02:06:37 PM »
Well, on the E4OD I beg to differ,

In what way?  Short of overheating or massive, extended abuse they're virtually impossible to kill mechanically.  What few issues there are with electronics are relatively uncommon, and most of those are decently easy and inexpensive fixes that can be done as part of a routine service. 

Did you have one die on you?  If so, how?  Now you have my curiosity up as I've never known of one that needed major work short of just being worn out, and that one had several hundred thousand extremely hard and very abused miles on the clock.

Brad
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 02:53:59 PM by Brad Johnson »
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
-HankB

Tallpine

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Re: Need price check help
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2013, 03:05:38 PM »
Oops, sorry it is the 460 and an automatic. How would I tell if the odometer has rolled over or not?

For comparison, here are a couple other trade offers I've received: 92 Chevy 1500 Scottsdale 4x4 regular cab 350 auto 123k miles. 97 Ford Explorer XLT 4x4 4.0 V6 auto 188k tow package.

The Chevy is going to use a lot less gas than the Ford F-350 / 460.   ;)

If you're not going to tow or haul really big loads up steep grades a lot then a Chevy 350 v8 will do just fine.  It will do it anyway (except for the haul weight - big difference between half ton and a one ton) but just a little bit slower.  The 4 speed overdrive automatics are pretty good and a great improvement over the old Turbo-hydra-spastics.  (I still think a pickup should be a manual  ;) ).

Depends on your seating requirements and your towing requirements.

I'm not real keen on towing too much with less than a full size pickup.  The Explorer might pull okay but it's got a shorter and narrower wheelbase and likely not as much native braking capacity.  Probably won't get much if any better mileage than a K-1500 / 350.

There are a great number of that vintage Chevy pickups out there in circulation.  If you want to go that way then my suggestion is to look around and find a decent one out of the herd.
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Balog

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Re: Need price check help
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2013, 03:24:02 PM »
I suppose I should clarify what I'm going for here.

I recently got a liter+ sport bike, and I'm finding it far too tempting to ride very, very fast. I can't afford the tickets I'm going to be getting if I keep riding the way I have been, so I'm looking to get rid of the bike for something smaller/slower/better on gas.

The original plan was to trade for a truck because 1. you always get better value trading across platforms than trading the same type of vehicle 2. most of the folks looking to trade their bikes are most open to trading for a truck. I never really planned to keep it long term until the F350 was offered. I've long wanted a crew cab full size pickup for doing work around the house. I just needed to know if the value matched the value of my bike (which it doesn't, sadly).
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Tallpine

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Re: Need price check help
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2013, 04:34:45 PM »
I suppose I should clarify what I'm going for here.

I recently got a liter+ sport bike, and I'm finding it far too tempting to ride very, very fast. I can't afford the tickets I'm going to be getting if I keep riding the way I have been, so I'm looking to get rid of the bike for something smaller/slower/better on gas.

The original plan was to trade for a truck because 1. you always get better value trading across platforms than trading the same type of vehicle 2. most of the folks looking to trade their bikes are most open to trading for a truck. I never really planned to keep it long term until the F350 was offered. I've long wanted a crew cab full size pickup for doing work around the house. I just needed to know if the value matched the value of my bike (which it doesn't, sadly).

Okay - well, I would steer away from something like a one-ton 460 etc unless you really need that much pickup.

A half or 3/4 ton 4-door crew cab short bed with a small block v8 would be more economical.  There's getting to be lots of those around anymore.
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French G.

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Re: Need price check help
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2013, 07:11:17 PM »
In what way?  Short of overheating or massive, extended abuse they're virtually impossible to kill mechanically.  What few issues there are with electronics are relatively uncommon, and most of those are decently easy and inexpensive fixes that can be done as part of a routine service. 

Did you have one die on you?  If so, how?  Now you have my curiosity up as I've never known of one that needed major work short of just being worn out, and that one had several hundred thousand extremely hard and very abused miles on the clock.

Brad

Well considering that I do not know the truck's history it's probably unfair, but when you pull a tranny twice you tend to hold a grudge. Just burnt to shreds in the friction parts. @nd pull was my fault, I didn't loosen up the bearing in the pump enough, wouldn't bypass enough, blew the front seal out. after the 2nd install I fire it up, red fluid runs again, I damn near shot the truck or myself. That was easy, cooler lines were chafed to nothing on an exhaust shield and had finally given up with all the moving around.

Given what I deduced of the truck's previous maintainers, it is likely they abused it. At some point they drove it with no front brake pad and then slapped new pads in with nothing else. Grooves in the rotor matched the grooves in the piston. They liked slick50 and quaker state, maintenance action #1 by me was pressure washing the motor. The inside of the motor.  :facepalm:Freaking coal mine. Got 60K more miles out of that little motor flush, but the first 10 oil changes were on 50 or less mile intervals and 50/50 oil and diesel.
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Boomhauer

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Re: Need price check help
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2013, 07:29:17 PM »
Quote
The 4 speed overdrive automatics are pretty good

The 4L60 family is OK if you don't do any towing or hauling.

It's a weak trans I consider to be pushed close to it's limit by being installed into a 1/2 ton truck. Does fine in the blazers/S-10 pickemups and cars.

The 4L80E is a far better transmission.

I have no qualms against a well designed automatic transmission that is properly sized for the application. Trying to cheap out with an undersized one is what I consider to be the main weakness for auto trans.


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Gewehr98

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Re: Need price check help
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2013, 07:31:16 PM »
Not impressed with the 4L60 as installed in my stepson's K1500 (4WD) Suburban.

That's too much truck for something other than a 4L80.  The clutch packs died at 120k miles.   =(
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Boomhauer

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Re: Need price check help
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2013, 07:34:06 PM »
Not impressed with the 4L60 as installed in my stepson's K1500 (4WD) Suburban.

That's too much truck for something other than a 4L80.  The clutch packs died at 120k miles.   =(

It's a *expletive deleted*ing car transmission (see it as installed in the GM rear wheel drive cars) installed in a truck. No bueno.

Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

lupinus

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Re: Need price check help
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2013, 08:01:21 PM »
It's a *expletive deleted* car transmission (see it as installed in the GM rear wheel drive cars) installed in a truck. No bueno.


But, but! Look at the hP it'll handle! Our paper says so!

I can't stand it, and it's farking annoying. Especially with what newer trucks are going for.
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French G.

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Re: Need price check help
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2013, 08:18:15 PM »
I know little about GM transmissions despite riding in them my whole youth. All I know is Turbo 400 good, all else, suspect. When the nice Suburban blew a white cloud 50 miles into a 700 mile trip we limped home and got the not nice suburban. So EFI 350 an a car transmission left us near parked but the old 454, t400, dually axle conversion got us there, albeit in considerably less style.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Need price check help
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2013, 09:40:06 PM »
Well considering that I do not know the truck's history it's probably unfair, but when you pull a tranny twice you tend to hold a grudge. Just burnt to shreds in the friction parts. @nd pull was my fault, I didn't loosen up the bearing in the pump enough, wouldn't bypass enough, blew the front seal out. after the 2nd install I fire it up, red fluid runs again, I damn near shot the truck or myself. That was easy, cooler lines were chafed to nothing on an exhaust shield and had finally given up with all the moving around.

Given what I deduced of the truck's previous maintainers, it is likely they abused it. At some point they drove it with no front brake pad and then slapped new pads in with nothing else. Grooves in the rotor matched the grooves in the piston. They liked slick50 and quaker state, maintenance action #1 by me was pressure washing the motor. The inside of the motor.  :facepalm:Freaking coal mine. Got 60K more miles out of that little motor flush, but the first 10 oil changes were on 50 or less mile intervals and 50/50 oil and diesel.

Sounds like you won the DumbAdz Previous Owner lottery.  Ick.  No vehicle tranny will hold up to that level of Epic Stupid.  Sorry 'bout that.

The old C6 was, and still is, the go-to tranny of choice for Blue Oval diehards like me.  I've seen... heck, I've been guilty of... picking up a junkyard C6 on Friday afternoon, bolting it behind a pretty stout (and sometimes juiced) engine, then running it all weekend with no problems.  Unless they were overheated, the things just plain worked.  Overheat them, though, and they will burn through the 2nd gear band in a matter of seconds.  Keep them decently cooled and you can throw some pretty serious twist to them.  Throw a set of red clutches in the packs and you can reliably punch 800 HP through a set of otherwise-stock internals without worry.  The shafts were good up to almost 1000 HP, but the sprags and first gear planetary would play Shrapnel Roulette at about 900.  Even less if you were running a tranny brake.

The E4OD is essentially a C6 assembly with an additional planetary for OD.  The major diff is the E4OD is solenoid controlled rather than the C6's old-school hydraulic/vacuum setup.  Pretty hard to grenade one if you treat it decent, but darned easy if you let them overtemp by even a little.  Between the TH400 and the C6 it's pretty much a tossup which one will handle more twist before letting go.  Both were darned tough, but I like the C6 better because, well, it's a Ford.   =D

*Edit to add*  OT, but maybe I should buy a lottery ticket.  I spent most of Saturday changing plugs in the truck.  If you know anything about the 5.4 mod motor you know the horror stories associated with 04-07 5.4 3V Ford engines with plugs parts seized in the heads.  By good fortune, and with a good bit of interwebz research, I discovered how to minimize the opportunity to enrich my local mechanic with an unplanned cylinder head removal.  All eight came out intact.  New plugs, coils, and injectors and she runs like a new 'un.  Big sigh of relief and several celebratory beverages after that job.  (not to mention about half a box of bandaids and some wilted shrubbery from the constant string of @#$%^#!)

Brad
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 11:29:59 PM by Brad Johnson »
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
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Boomhauer

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Re: Need price check help
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2013, 10:17:26 PM »
I know little about GM transmissions despite riding in them my whole youth. All I know is Turbo 400 good, all else, suspect. When the nice Suburban blew a white cloud 50 miles into a 700 mile trip we limped home and got the not nice suburban. So EFI 350 an a car transmission left us near parked but the old 454, t400, dually axle conversion got us there, albeit in considerably less style.

The 4L80E is basically an updated TH400 with overdrive and other incidentals...both the 400 and 4L80E are good transmissions.


The 4L60e transmission on thd other hand, well Id like to run into the guy that decided to use them in trucks.
Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

charby

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Re: Need price check help
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2013, 10:28:40 PM »
Is the dually a 4x4?
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Tallpine

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Re: Need price check help
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2013, 10:49:42 PM »
Not impressed with the 4L60 as installed in my stepson's K1500 (4WD) Suburban.

That's too much truck for something other than a 4L80.  The clutch packs died at 120k miles.   =(

I dunno which our 1991 has  =|

We did some trailer pulling with it and it worked fine.  Still going good at 225K but it might have been rebuilt before we got it at 140K.

I had a couple old TH-350 in pickups and those things were worthless  :mad:
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French G.

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Re: Need price check help
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2013, 01:17:59 AM »

*Edit to add*  OT, but maybe I should buy a lottery ticket.  I spent most of Saturday changing plugs in the truck.  If you know anything about the 5.4 mod motor you know the horror stories associated with 04-07 5.4 3V Ford engines with plugs parts seized in the heads.  By good fortune, and with a good bit of interwebz research, I discovered how to minimize the opportunity to enrich my local mechanic with an unplanned cylinder head removal.  All eight came out intact.  New plugs, coils, and injectors and she runs like a new 'un.  Big sigh of relief and several celebratory beverages after that job.  (not to mention about half a box of bandaids and some wilted shrubbery from the constant string of @#$%^#!)

Brad

They make this stuff called anti-seize, not sure why no one, manufacturers included, use it. Must be the prevailing belief that a lubed bolt will loosen since it is all that friction that holds them in.  ;/ Aluminum heads should be use #1, aluminum wheels #2.
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Re: Need price check help
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2013, 08:06:39 AM »
FrenchG I also have no idea why anti sieze isnt used where it needs to be. Its wonderful stuff...

Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

Brad Johnson

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Re: Need price check help
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2013, 09:45:00 AM »
They make this stuff called anti-seize, not sure why no one, manufacturers included, use it. Must be the prevailing belief that a lubed bolt will loosen since it is all that friction that holds them in.  ;/ Aluminum heads should be use #1, aluminum wheels #2.

It's not the threads, it's the plug body.  The 5.4 uses an extended tip plug that has a cap covering the lower ceramic.  The cap gets seized in the plug tunnel and seperates from the rest of the plug when you try to remove it.  You end up with this...




Would you believe the best way to get them out without breaking is an impact wrench?  The hammering actions breaks loose the crud around the cap.  If one does break, Lisle makes a broken plug remover that's been a godsend to the 5.4 3V community.

The plugs that went back in got a coating of nickel anti seize around the cap and a small dab on the threads (Always use nickel-based anti-seize for this application, not copper, aluminum, or graphite.  The others won't hold up and the copper can contaminate the O2 sensors).  Hopefully I'll never have to mess with them again, but if I do at least I've given myself a little extra protection against future problems.

Brad
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 09:49:26 AM by Brad Johnson »
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
-HankB