Any EE's here? Computers in climate-uncontrolled environments.

[CNYCacher]

I have a detached garage that is dry, but unheated and drafty.  I am in the middle of running power out to it and since I already had a trench I threw in a second conduit for Ethernet.

The thought occurred to me to put a computer out there as a kind of file server that I can use as an "offsite" backup and such.

Is there anything I should be worried about?  Like I said, it's dry in there, but it can get down to 0 F and below in the winter.

[Scout26]

IIRC, computers prefer cold to hot.   Dust would be the bigger worry. Might get a little chilly to surf for pron in the winter though.

 

[lee n. field]

I have a detached garage that is dry, but unheated and drafty.  I am in the middle of running power out to it and since I already had a trench I threw in a second conduit for Ethernet.

The thought occurred to me to put a computer out there as a kind of file server that I can use as an "offsite" backup and such.

Is there anything I should be worried about?  Like I said, it's dry in there, but it can get down to 0 F and below in the winter.

CAt5/cat6 between the buildings might be OK.  What I hear (not a cabling buy at all) i$ that fiber is be$t between building$.

[rcnixon]

CAt5/cat6 between the buildings might be OK.  What I hear (not a cabling buy at all) i$ that fiber is be$t between building$.

Fiber optic cable isn't expensive.  Putting the connector ends on it is.  F. O. will avoid potential ground loops between the buildings.  You can buy an already terminated jumper of the requisite length.  Use conduit and termination boxes.  Stuff some steel wool or fiberglass insulation into each end of the conduit when you finish; it keeps the critters out.

Your best bet is to use a safety ground at the service entrance to the garage and bond that ground rod to the ground rod at the service entrance to the house (that's actually required by the National Electric Code, section 250); the third wire ground isn't good enough.  Connect the two ground rods with bare #4 copper wire run in the trench, below the frost line.  Always use mechanical connections (clamps), never solder.  I can pretty much guarantee that will cost more than the fiber.  If you're going to do anything in the garage with power tools, install the bonded ground; you may save your own life.

As far as your original question, there are specifications from the manufacturer concerning temperature, humidity and power requirements.  I'd be concerned about humidity and the extremes of temperature.  If you're going to use it as a backup, what about uninterruptable power?

It's probably not such a good idea to put a computer out there.  Put it in an out-of-the-way spot in the house and make backups regularly onto mostly permanent media like CDs or DVDs.  Store the backup in the bank vault and remember to test the restore process regularly.

Can you tell I'm an IT engineer?

Russ

[CNYCacher]

Your best bet is to use a safety ground at the service entrance to the garage and bond that ground rod to the ground rod at the service entrance to the house (that's actually required by the National Electric Code, section 250); the third wire ground isn't good enough.  Connect the two ground rods with bare #4 copper wire run in the trench, below the frost line.  Always use mechanical connections (clamps), never solder.  I can pretty much guarantee that will cost more than the fiber.  If you're going to do anything in the garage with power tools, install the bonded ground; you may save your own life.

Ok I am running a 4-wire service out to the garage, and sinking a ground rod at the garage.  Are you saying that it's code to run a copper ground the 100 or so feet from one ground rod to the other in a trench below the frost line?  never heard of that one.

It's probably not such a good idea to put a computer out there.  Put it in an out-of-the-way spot in the house and make backups regularly onto mostly permanent media like CDs or DVDs.  Store the backup in the bank vault and remember to test the restore process regularly.

I'm running a 3TB ZFS mirror so I am all set on backups for anything other than a catastrophic loss of the computer itself: fire, theft, lightning strike, etc. I've got my most important few dozen GB syncing to a data center 200 miles away anyway.  The rest would be nice to have on a semi-local backup that isn't likely to be destroyed/lost at the same time as the main box.  I don't consider DVDs feasible or permanent.

[Regolith]

How dry does it stay? Dust + Condensation = Very Bad Things...

[zxcvbob]

Frost line doesn't matter.

What size 4-wire cable are you running for the garage service?  #6 for a 50A or 60A panel?  #4 for something bigger? That should be fine.  Bond the bare wire (or green) to the panel.  Run a #6 bare solid copper wire from the ground bus in that panel to a ground rod -- with no splices.  (You should be doing all that anyway.)  Use ground-fault interrupters on all the 110V circuits *except* if you have a dedicated outlet for something like a freezer.

Use that black antioxidant goop on the connections if you're using aluminum cable.  (and there's nothing wrong with aluminum when you get larger than about 10 gauge)

My knowledge of the electrical code is about 15 years old and I'm sure it's out of date.  The above *should* still be accurate but I don't guarantee it.

Might be good to leave the computer on all the time; it will gen enough heat to keep condensation out.

[Gewehr98]

Put either filter pads or 3M green scrubby pads on the case fans and power supply. 

[never_retreat]

Yes the 4 conductor set up you are running is code. You must run hot, neutral, and ground.
Since is a detached building it needs a ground rod.

I actually had a chat with a friend that moved to Florida about fiber between the out building and house.
His detached barn has its own 200 amp overhead service. Since he was putting up his tower and ham shack in the barn he did not want a copper connection to the house.
Because of the digging involved I think he ended up using wireless with some directional antennas.

I have seen the damage first hand at a friends farm from a shorted transformer.
Barn had its own service, but there was an overhead wire to the house that was used for a light in the farm yard (switched from the house).
When the overhead wire came into the house it was bx.
That bx crossed over another piece of bx that was a circuit in the house.
The problem originated from the pole transformer that feed the bard but still burned up most of the equipment in the house.
So most of the wiring ended up getting a 4.8k volt jolt from the primary on the street.

[RevDisk]

I have a detached garage that is dry, but unheated and drafty.  I am in the middle of running power out to it and since I already had a trench I threw in a second conduit for Ethernet.

The thought occurred to me to put a computer out there as a kind of file server that I can use as an "offsite" backup and such.

Is there anything I should be worried about?  Like I said, it's dry in there, but it can get down to 0 F and below in the winter.

You can make an enclosure around the computer.  Basically, make a box, make hole for fan, put filter over fan, and there you go. I proper two fans, one in and one out. I always preferred that over filters directly on the hardware. They do make those, however. Cold is fine, dry is better. Regolith isn't kidding.

[CNYCacher]

You can make an enclosure around the computer.  Basically, make a box, make hole for fan, put filter over fan, and there you go. I proper two fans, one in and one out. I always preferred that over filters directly on the hardware. They do make those, however. Cold is fine, dry is better. Regolith isn't kidding.

I thought about that.  I figure with the proper enclosure, the computer could keep itself warm.  Maybe an arduino-controlled louvre to regulate temp.

[rcnixon]

NEC Section 250 paraphrased.  All grounds must be electrically bonded.  It's how the ground for my ham station is done.  I have a ground rod at the pedestal out at the antenna field, a ground rod where the coax entrance is on the foundation of the house and static arrestors are (in a NEMA box) and the ground rod for the electrical service entrance.  All of these ground rods are bonded with #4 bare copper wire laid in a trench below the frost line.  The connections are made with bronze clamps, unless you know how to CAD weld.  The #4 wire is stunningly expensive.

As a point about the ham station, there is a 1/4" copper plate fastened under the desk and a 1/4" copper plate in the NEMA box.  The plates are bonded with 3" copper strap and stainless steel nuts and bolts.  The strap continues into the ground below grade where it is bonded to the ground rod with clamps.  The static arrestors are bolted to the plate in the NEMA box with stainless fasteners.  Each piece of equipment, transceiver, power supply, outboard VFO, antenna tuner and etc. is bonded to the plate under the desk with 3/4" copper braided strap.

The rack for my network engineering lab is also bonded to the station ground.  That's just a piece of #4 green insulated copper wire bolted to the plate under the desk.

I worked for a big, three-letter telephone company for years.  Grounding is a religion in telcom.  As an amateur radio operator, I never operate when there is electricity in the air.  As a telcom engineer, I provide service to you 7X24X365, regardless.

Russ

[zxcvbob]

• One of the best grounds (I think it is the best, but I'm hedging my bet in case a steel well casing is better) is called a "ufer" electrode -- you bond to the steel rebar before the concrete foundation is poured (and make sure all the rebar tie wires are tight.)  If you have the opportunity to do this, you definitely should go for it instead of messing with a copper-clad ground rod.
• I don't see any advantage to using 4 gauge wire instead of 6 for grounding anything residential unless you're just made out of money.

[never_retreat]

• One of the best grounds (I think it is the best, but I'm hedging my bet in case a steel well casing is better) is called a "ufer" electrode -- you bond to the steel rebar before the concrete foundation is poured (and make sure all the rebar tie wires are tight.)  If you have the opportunity to do this, you definitely should go for it instead of messing with a copper-clad ground rod.
• I don't see any advantage to using 4 gauge wire instead of 6 for grounding anything residential unless you're just made out of money.

Well the ground is size based on the service size per NEC.
Yes the rebar ground is good and required around here now if there is new cement being poured. The other thing the inspectors are making you do is drive 2 ground rods on new services (again around here). Unless that you can prove that one has the proper conductivity. So unless you have the high priced tester to show the inspector you have to use 2.

Now if you soil is void of big rocks you can get multi section ground rods at the supply house. Then you could drive it 20 or more feet down.

[CNYCacher]

NEC Section 250 paraphrased.  All grounds must be electrically bonded.

They are, by the ground wire I am running as part of my 4-wire service to the outbuilding.  I think your trench thing is overkill.

[RevDisk]

I thought about that.  I figure with the proper enclosure, the computer could keep itself warm.  Maybe an arduino-controlled louvre to regulate temp.

http://www.coolerguys.com/840556098690.html
http://www.coolerguys.com/allofourcoki.html

No need. $40 for cheaper model, and only turns on > 80 degrees, so save on power. Spend an extra couple bucks and add filters.


Edit: Want a nice box? Work has some really nice ones for dirt cheap (especially with my 50% discount). Shipping would be more expensive than the price of the box. I can email you a picture.

[lee n. field]

...

[CNYCacher]

http://www.coolerguys.com/840556098690.html
http://www.coolerguys.com/allofourcoki.html

No need. $40 for cheaper model, and only turns on > 80 degrees, so save on power. Spend an extra couple bucks and add filters.


Edit: Want a nice box? Work has some really nice ones for dirt cheap (especially with my 50% discount). Shipping would be more expensive than the price of the box. I can email you a picture.

Sure.

[Ben]

Late to the party, but for 7 years, one of my server closets was the worst server closet in the US Govt. No climate control other than a couple of household fans, a vent in the door that let in more dirt than air, and in a harbor where you have humid and salty air. Temps in the room averaged the mid 80s. Despite all that, I had two Dell 2U servers running in there the whole time. One of them had a MB go bad, but we couldn't really trace that to the climate conditions. They both showed signs of corrosion on the outside over their last few years, but nothing on the inside.

I can't remember where the damn link is, but Google did a white paper I think on the argument for allowing server rooms to be much warmer than current convention calls for. Part of that though, might be them working rotation frequency to new servers into the equation versus life expectancy.

[Gewehr98]

Ben,

I read that white paper, too.

Chilling server rooms may not be necessary, at least not to the temps they've been chilled, as previously thought.

There was also parallel discussions about newer, more-efficient server processors which produce less heat and throttle down when not moving bits and bytes.

I know of folks running SETI and Bitcoin mining who run their rigs 24/7/365 in garages with higher ambient temps - Phoenix, AZ for one. 

As long as one maintains good airflow, or liquid flow, they can actually thrive.  Just stay below CPU Tmax (63C for my own Xeon X5365s) and you're good.

[RevDisk]

Late to the party, but for 7 years, one of my server closets was the worst server closet in the US Govt. No climate control other than a couple of household fans, a vent in the door that let in more dirt than air, and in a harbor where you have humid and salty air. Temps in the room averaged the mid 80s. Despite all that, I had two Dell 2U servers running in there the whole time. One of them had a MB go bad, but we couldn't really trace that to the climate conditions. They both showed signs of corrosion on the outside over their last few years, but nothing on the inside.

I can't remember where the damn link is, but Google did a white paper I think on the argument for allowing server rooms to be much warmer than current convention calls for. Part of that though, might be them working rotation frequency to new servers into the equation versus life expectancy.

Yes.  If you have a 3-5 fixed rotation, it's not as big of a deal.
Big G is right as well. Newer servers are a bit more durable and energy efficient.

Chilling the servers is not a bad thing, but you don't need a meat locker anymore.