Ester herbicides (most homeowner products are amine)

[zxcvbob]

There's a question near the end of all this
I bought a gallon of Garlon 4 herbicide to split with a guy at work.  He's using it for buckthorn eradication; I'm using it some to kill sapling stumps and for controlling 2,4-d resistant broadleaf perennial weeds.  It is listed for all of these uses, but the label is kind of sparse; mostly in pounds per acre rather than tablespoon per gallon.  The technicals are 61% triclopyr ester.  

Amine herbicides are water soluble.  I've used them before.  Esters give much faster burndown, but are not water soluble and they are more prone to drift in hot weather.  When I bought it, I also got a quart of nonionic surfactant with it to make it easier to mix in the sprayer.  The surfactant is as expensive as the herbicide, and will run out long before I run out of Garlon. (at least I can get more of it locally) What about using a small squirt of dish soap for the surfactant?  That would be a lot cheaper and readily available -- but it's not really cheaper if it doesn't work.  I tried it today and it at least seems to work.  I mixed up a gallon of spray several hours ago and used half of it, and the leftover hasn't separated.  Any thoughts?

[GigaBuist]

Based on the MSDS of the Garlon 4 you're talking about it's 61% 2,5,6, whatever ester but also nearly 38% kerosene with the remainder being a proprietary surfactant.

If you want something that'll help it spread, yeah, dish soap will probably do well at pushing an oil based product like kerosene around.  I assume the ester dissolves into the kerosene well and that's why they package it up that way.  So anything that'll disperse oil (dish soap qualifies) will help it spread about provided the soap doesn't react with the actual active ingredient.  That I know nothing about.

[MillCreek]

Dawn dish soap would work particularly well for this application.

[zxcvbob]

judging from the way it mixed at 1/2 oz per gallon, it probably doesn't even need any additional surfactant unless you're mixing a *lot* stronger.  I may try that next.  The weeds that I sprayed this afternoon (using dish soap) are already wilting, and the brush that I sprayed a week ago (using the commercial surfactant) looks pretty pitiful.

It also doesn't stink nearly as bad as 2,4-d.  I can always tell when the ChemLawn truck has been in the neighborhood; it smells like death, but more "chemically".