Author Topic: Crossing the Rubicon  (Read 3849 times)

Scout26

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Crossing the Rubicon
« on: June 22, 2013, 04:54:38 PM »
Looking over the current Immigration Bill and all the other crap going in DC (IRS, NSA, etc.)  It appears that we've gone from .gov doing well-intentioned but silly/stupid things to actively working to destroy those things that made this country great.

Or am I just getting old and crotchety?

What do you think about all this?  Can we get it turned around in time?
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Tallpine

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Re: Crossing the Rubicon
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2013, 04:58:04 PM »
The two are not mutually exclusive  ;)   :P
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Perd Hapley

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Re: Crossing the Rubicon
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2013, 05:23:38 PM »
...actively working to destroy those things that made this country great.


This has been going on for probably 100 years, if not longer. They are getting closer and closer.

Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?
--Thomas Jefferson

Scout26

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Re: Crossing the Rubicon
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2013, 05:30:10 PM »
And I know the Immigration Bill (aka the "Let's Add 10-15 Million New Democrat Voters To The Rolls" Act) is supposed to do what Gun Control failed to do.  Die in the House, so that the D's can use it as a stick with which to beat the R's with in the 2014 elections.  But I do have doubts that it will be killed there.  I just don't get as to how the R(ino)'s in the Senate are soooo stupid as to that they trust anything the D's promise (Securing/Fencing the Border, adding Border Patrol agents, etc.  are all now "goals" instead of "triggers" allowing illegals to stay without penalty.)

*sigh*  Yes, I know they are called "The Stupid Party" for a reason. 

 
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Crossing the Rubicon
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2013, 05:38:57 PM »
'Cause a "path to citizenship" is something Congress should be worrying about now.  ;/

If I were the sort of person that could launch a movement, I would start one to put teeth in the old "Party of No" label. I'd start a petition to present to Republican politicians (national and state level) directing them to fight any new legislation, until various laws had been repealed, or agencies abolished. I'm not sure what the full list would be, but junking the Health Control law would be at the top, along with abolition of the IRS, DHS, TSA, EPA, D of Ed and BATFE.

'Course, we could put in some kind of exception about passing one of those old "budget" things, like our government used to have.
Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?
--Thomas Jefferson

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Crossing the Rubicon
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2013, 07:34:38 PM »
Looking over the current Immigration Bill and all the other crap going in DC (IRS, NSA, etc.)  It appears that we've gone from .gov doing well-intentioned but silly/stupid things to actively working to destroy those things that made this country great.

Or am I just getting old and crotchety?

What do you think about all this?  Can we get it turned around in time?

I don't think so.

In my opinion, the final end of this republic, as it was founded, is inevitable and in the near future.
My prediction is less than 10 years, possibly less than 5.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

bedlamite

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Re: Crossing the Rubicon
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2013, 07:42:04 PM »
I don't think so.

In my opinion, the final end of this republic, as it was founded, is inevitable and in the near future.
My prediction is less than 10 years, possibly less than 5.

I've heard that said several times in my lifetime. The republic is decaying, but it'll take longer than that.
A plan is just a list of things that doesn't happen.
Is defenestration possible through the overton window?

SADShooter

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Re: Crossing the Rubicon
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2013, 08:32:05 PM »
I've heard that said several times in my lifetime. The republic is decaying, but it'll take longer than that.

Agreed. Empires rarely go out in a flash. We still have some distance to fall, at least a generation or two, I think, as the machinery grinds down. That is, barring a black swan event.
"Ah, is there any wine so sweet and intoxicating as the tears of a hippie?"-Tamara, View From the Porch

RocketMan

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Re: Crossing the Rubicon
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2013, 08:54:02 PM »
Around '96-'98 I was of the opinion we had 50 years or so to go before the Republic finally died.  Here it is 15 years later, I'm not sure it's going to last that long.  The major change since then is that we have a President who actively hates this country (elected to a second term, no less), and a Congress that has grown more corrupt than I thought possible.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

roo_ster

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Re: Crossing the Rubicon
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2013, 10:29:00 PM »
On the one hand, Rome lasted a few hundred years after the end of the Republic.  On the other hand, events move more quickly and processes play out much faster these days.  The Soviet Union lasted a mere 70 years, for instance.

One thing I think we can be sure of is more state/emperor worship and proliferation of worthless liberties and distractions as substantive liberties are more & more curtailed.  Bread (Obamacare) and Circuses (gay "marriage" & suchlike) will supplant liberties such as freedom of religion & expression and the whole panoply of natural and civil rights that are a threat to gov't power.

Our 21st century equivalent of 4th century German barbarians crossing the border in search of the wealth and opportunity of their more prosperous neighbor are the illegals pouring over our border.  Individually, no more malignant than any group.  Collectively, a huge threat to our culture, economy, and limited gov't.

Sadly, our rulers really do not like us.  BHO is not the only one and the Democrat party is joined by many in the Republican party who would replace us with a more biddable & dependent population.

Electing a McCain or Romney or Rubio will not arrest these developments.  Politics won't save us, as policritters do as they will, COTUS be damned.  Only a new Great Awakening or moral renaissance as occurred in Georgian England will do the trick, as the fault lies with us, in that we have become accustomed to dependency and license. Our founding fathers understood the limitations of self-gov't and a population of teat-sucking libertines glued to the couch are not up to the task.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

ArfinGreebly

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Re: Crossing the Rubicon
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2013, 10:59:25 PM »

I don't think so.

In my opinion, the final end of this republic, as it was founded, is inevitable and in the near future.
My prediction is less than 10 years, possibly less than 5.


Thanks.  I needed that.

Just when I figured a little optimism couldn't hurt . . .

Well, at least it lets me wonder about the way I'll leave this life.

I used to worry that I'd waste away as a bed-ridden, drooling vegetable of some variety.  The possibility that I might be on my feet to meet that end is at least less boring.

Cold comfort, I suppose, to know that a tyranny in this country would "burn out" in relatively short order.
"Look at it this way. If America frightens you, feel free to live somewhere else. There are plenty of other countries that don't suffer from excessive liberty. America is where the Liberty is. Liberty is not certified safe."

French G.

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Re: Crossing the Rubicon
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2013, 01:49:44 AM »
We'll come back,hopefully better.
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Crossing the Rubicon
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2013, 02:08:56 AM »
We'll come back,hopefully better.

Maybe in a few hundred years:

Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?
--Thomas Jefferson

brimic

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Re: Crossing the Rubicon
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2013, 10:01:12 AM »
Quote
Only a new Great Awakening or moral renaissance as occurred in Georgian England will do the trick, as the fault lies with us, in that we have become accustomed to dependency and license. Our founding fathers understood the limitations of self-gov't and a population of teat-sucking libertines glued to the couch are not up to the task.

+1
Its not 1 or a handful of politicians that are going to change the course of our country to get it back on track. Obama, Pelosi, Holder, Boehner, Reid etc are just symptoms of a much deeper and malignant disease.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

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Barack Obama

Tallpine

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Re: Crossing the Rubicon
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2013, 10:47:29 AM »
I've heard that said several times in my lifetime. The republic is decaying, but it'll take longer than that.

I think history will report that the Republic has been gone for a long time (maybe since 1865).

Who knows how long the Empire will last ...  =|
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

RocketMan

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Re: Crossing the Rubicon
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2013, 11:16:56 AM »
I think history will report that the Republic has been gone for a long time (maybe since 1865).

Who knows how long the Empire will last ...  =|

Please let us have our illusions, TP.  They are about all we have left.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

TommyGunn

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Re: Crossing the Rubicon
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2013, 01:07:37 PM »
Maybe in a few hundred years:



We'll come back as Nathan Fillion?    ???
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AJ Dual

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Re: Crossing the Rubicon
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2013, 01:23:23 PM »
We'll come back as Nathan Fillion?    ???

Exactly.

But the question really is: Which  Nathan Fillion will it be?

I promise not to duck.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Crossing the Rubicon
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2013, 02:59:19 PM »
We'll come back as Nathan Fillion?    ???


I was thinking more like it might be a few hundred years before "we" come back, and it may be in some other place (not necessarily off-world). Heck, we may even be speaking Chinese. Who's to say?
Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?
--Thomas Jefferson