Author Topic: Belly dancing and the Renaissance (Read 2152 times)

Perd Hapley · « **on:** July 08, 2013, 01:52:17 PM »

I haven't been to many Ren. fairs, but I gather that belly dancers are a common sight at such events. We also see them every summer at the Shakespeare festival.

What's the connection?

Boomhauer · « **Reply #1 on:** July 08, 2013, 01:56:24 PM »

I have no idea, but one of my old bosses (hot as hell to boot) was a belly dancer and belly dancer instructor.

Jamisjockey · « **Reply #2 on:** July 08, 2013, 01:56:45 PM »

Quote from: fistful on July 08, 2013, 01:52:17 PM

I haven't been to many Ren. fairs, but I gather that belly dancers are a common sight at such events. We also see them every summer at the Shakespeare festival.

What's the connection?

I would assume that because of the crusades, belly dancing was a common form of entertainment for troops abroad.

Tallpine · « **Reply #3 on:** July 08, 2013, 01:57:23 PM »

Quote from: fistful on July 08, 2013, 01:52:17 PM

I haven't been to many Ren. fairs, but I gather that belly dancers are a common sight at such events. We also see them every summer at the Shakespeare festival.

What's the connection?

Belly buttons

AZRedhawk44 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 08, 2013, 01:57:35 PM »

About the same as ninjas and pirates and highlanders with katanas.

I see all these at our local RenFair, along with belly dancers.

The belly dancers do at least have a tenuous connection to the period, via the gypsy/romano connection and trade caravans.

Basically, I see RenFairs the same as Halloween: An excuse for men to costume up with weapons, and women to costume up in slinky stuff, and both parties to drink alcohol and have fun.

Scout26 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 08, 2013, 01:59:34 PM »

Quote from: Boomhauer on July 08, 2013, 01:56:24 PM

I have no idea, but one of my old bosses (hot as hell to boot) was a belly dancer and belly dancer instructor.

The lesbian?

geronimotwo · « **Reply #6 on:** July 08, 2013, 02:02:37 PM »

Quote from: Boomhauer on July 08, 2013, 01:56:24 PM

I have no idea, but one of my old bosses (hot as hell to boot) was a belly dancer and belly dancer instructor.

do you still have his number?

Boomhauer · « **Reply #7 on:** July 08, 2013, 02:05:51 PM »

Quote from: scout26 on July 08, 2013, 01:59:34 PM

The lesbian?

No she was straight. Not at the mountain park

Perd Hapley · « **Reply #8 on:** July 08, 2013, 02:15:26 PM »

Quote from: AZRedhawk44 on July 08, 2013, 01:57:35 PM

About the same as ninjas and pirates and highlanders with katanas.

I see all these at our local RenFair, along with belly dancers.

The belly dancers do at least have a tenuous connection to the period, via the gypsy/romano connection and trade caravans.

Basically, I see RenFairs the same as Halloween: An excuse for men to costume up with weapons, and women to costume up in slinky stuff, and both parties to drink alcohol and have fun.

That seems about right for the Ren fairs. Not as much for the Shakespeare thing.

Perd Hapley · « **Reply #9 on:** July 08, 2013, 02:16:30 PM »

Quote from: geronimotwo on July 08, 2013, 02:02:37 PM

do you still have his number?

Now that's cold. Much respect.

K Frame · « **Reply #10 on:** July 08, 2013, 02:26:44 PM »

"I would assume that because of the crusades, belly dancing was a common form of entertainment for troops abroad."

Bingo.

AZRedhawk44 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 08, 2013, 02:31:56 PM »

Crusades have nothing to do with the Renaissance. Neither does the jousting and the heavy weapons displays/booths/games that so often populate a RenFair.

They really shouldn't even call the things "Renaissance Fairs." There's no appreciation of rising literacy, growth in secular art, explosion of scientific knowledge, increase in religious freedom of expression, or any of the other elements of the Renaissance.

All everyone cares about is knights, armor, swords and hawt chicks. And mead and turkey legs. Which is totally cool in its own way.

I was just put off by my first time attending a RenFair and seeing nothing pertaining to the, you know, Renaissance.

Jamisjockey · « **Reply #12 on:** July 08, 2013, 02:36:47 PM »

Crusades were from the 11th-13th century, and the Renaissance started in the 14th. Conceivable that the entertainment form of belly dancing made it's way back with the returning crusaders before the renaissance.

Besides, as long as the belly dancers are hawt, why complain?

CNYCacher · « **Reply #13 on:** July 08, 2013, 02:50:04 PM »

Quote from: jamisjockey on July 08, 2013, 02:36:47 PM

Besides, as long as the belly dancers are hawt, why complain?

Exactly.

Tallpine · « **Reply #14 on:** July 08, 2013, 03:03:26 PM »

What's wrong with a Renaissance of Belly dancing

Perd Hapley · « **Reply #15 on:** July 08, 2013, 03:03:33 PM »

Quote from: jamisjockey on July 08, 2013, 02:36:47 PM

Crusades were from the 11th-13th century, and the Renaissance started in the 14th. Conceivable that the entertainment form of belly dancing made it's way back with the returning crusaders before the renaissance.

Besides, as long as the belly dancers are hawt, why complain?

That's not how the knights danced when they returned from the Crusades. Haven't you seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail?

Perd Hapley · « **Reply #16 on:** July 08, 2013, 03:08:19 PM »

Quote from: AZRedhawk44 on July 08, 2013, 02:31:56 PM

They really shouldn't even call the things "Renaissance Fairs." There's no appreciation of rising literacy, growth in secular art, explosion of scientific knowledge, increase in religious freedom of expression, or any of the other elements of the Renaissance.

[Nerd fight mode] You totally left out the renewed interest in classical antiquity.

roo_ster · « **Reply #17 on:** July 08, 2013, 03:08:56 PM »

Crusading lasted well into the 17th century and maybe 18th century.

To start off, you had the crusades to the Holy Land. Then the crusades up north in the Baltic area. After those died down, you still had crusading going on in central europe vs the Turks for centuries. Generally on behalf of the Hapsburg Empire in Austria & therebouts. Very much an alternative to, say, a pilgrimage to Rome or some such for the more action-oriented Christian.

BlueStarLizzard · « **Reply #18 on:** July 08, 2013, 03:11:11 PM »

Belly dancing was known (and practiced) during the period. Maybe not in Europe, but it was around.

I don't know anything about Ren Faires, but I had a lot of friends in the SCA and almost joined. Anything from 0 AD to 1600 AD is fair game. And it can be either worldwide or if known by Europeans at some point during that period (i can't remember on that point, but I know the middle east is "in")

Also, don't be an authenticity nazi. It annoys people.

Perd Hapley · « **Reply #19 on:** July 08, 2013, 03:20:42 PM »

Quote from: bluestarlizzard on July 08, 2013, 03:11:11 PM

Belly dancing was known (and practiced) during the period. Maybe not in Europe, but it was around....

Also, don't be an authenticity nazi. It annoys people.

Ya know, with that attitude, AZR is never gonna come to your Ren Faire.

I don't know if you were including me among the authenticity nazis. I don't think it makes me an authenticity nazi to wonder why Shakespeare brings out the belly-dancers.

Tallpine · « **Reply #20 on:** July 08, 2013, 03:31:41 PM »

Quote from: fistful on July 08, 2013, 03:20:42 PM

Ya know, with that attitude, AZR is never gonna come to your Ren Faire.

I don't know if you were including me among the authenticity nazis. I don't think it makes me an authenticity nazi to wonder why Shakespeare brings out the belly-dancers.

You thinkest not that Shakespeare would have enjoyed belly dancing ?

Gewehr98 · « **Reply #21 on:** July 08, 2013, 03:32:20 PM »

They're protesting with their bodies the fact that Shakespeare plagiarized Roger Bacon?

Tallpine · « **Reply #22 on:** July 08, 2013, 03:38:10 PM »

Quote from: Gewehr98 on July 08, 2013, 03:32:20 PM

They're protesting with their bodies the fact that Shakespeare plagiarized Roger Bacon?

And Shakespearean actors are real hams

BlueStarLizzard · « **Reply #23 on:** July 08, 2013, 03:45:46 PM »

Quote from: fistful on July 08, 2013, 03:20:42 PM

Ya know, with that attitude, AZR is never gonna come to your Ren Faire.

I don't know if you were including me among the authenticity nazis. I don't think it makes me an authenticity nazi to wonder why Shakespeare brings out the belly-dancers.

*shrug* a lot of his plays where set in areas around the Mediterianian where belly dancing and belly dancers would have been more commen.
They might not be accurate to his preformances at the Globe, but they certainly fit into some of the themes and settings of his plays, especially the Comedies.

And I wouldn't invite him anyway.

SADShooter · « **Reply #24 on:** July 08, 2013, 03:54:47 PM »

Continuing the Shakespeare tie-in, we need look no further than Othello to factor in Moorish influence on period Europe via Spain.

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Author Topic: Belly dancing and the Renaissance (Read 2152 times)