I wonder if Barry will say anything? North Korean ship caught smuggling weapons

[Phyphor]

... In Panama.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/10181736/North-Korean-ship-caught-smuggling-weapons-and-missile-material-through-Panama-Canal.html

North Korean ship caught smuggling weapons and missile material through Panama Canal
Panama has launched a major investigation after drugs agents raided a ship travelling from Cuba to North Korea and discovered “missile components” stashed beneath a cargo of sugar.

Hoooo boy.

[AZRedhawk44]

So side-scatter radar spotted these things, and the radar was intended initially to snatch drugs.  Got it.

International shipping is now subject to US and US-puppet inspection.  Even outside the US.

I'm glad this came out over something as asinine as surplus and ancient Soviet missiles getting disassembled by arse-clown 3rd world nations and traded around (by people that probably can't reassemble them anyways, and even if they do they are still ancient tech and not very threatening), rather than perhaps an arms shipment to the people of a nation-state in revolution sometime in the future that gets intercepted while passing through the Panama Canal. 

Does anyone really think that Cuba and North Korea can't just send stuff south around Argentina?  Or around South Africa? 

[Fitz]

Hey, hoss

We didn't catch anything

The Panamanians did

Save your outrage . Are you suggesting that the Panamanians don't have the right to check out the vessels that come into their canal?

[Gewehr98]

There are days I wonder about AZRH44.  This is one of them.   

[Fitz]

I'm guessing he gave the article a cursory glance and inferred what would support a rant

Surely he doesn't think the Panamanians don't have a right to police their canal

[Scout26]

Yep, last I checked we didn't own or have anything to do with running the Canal since about 1 Jan 2000.

And perhaps MicroBalrog can tell you about how the 3rd world assclowns that can't re-assemble Soviet-era missiles aren't very threatening.

http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=16932.0
http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=20286.0

And sending stuff around the Horn or the Cape is a pretty risky move.  Hence, the reason the Canals (Panama and Suez) were built.

[Azrael256]

Meh.

Radar parts for a piece of commie junk that's older than my parents doesn't exactly get me all excited.  If they find a SS-18 in there, call me.

[RoadKingLarry]

The technology is almost 70 years old but it would still ruin your day.
(Yesteday was the anniversary.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_%28nuclear_test%29

[HankB]

The technology is almost 70 years old but it would still ruin your day.

On a smaller scale, how many of us rely on weapons technology that dates back to, say, 1911?

Or even 1898?

"Old" doesn't necessarily mean "Useless" or "Harmless."

[AZRedhawk44]

The technology is almost 70 years old but it would still ruin your day.
(Yesteday was the anniversary.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_%28nuclear_test%29

It's a defensive radar array for very old surface-to-air missiles.

Not an ICBM.

There are days I wonder about AZRH44.  This is one of them.  

You really worried about the norks having a 30 year old SAM defensive system instead of a 50 year old one?  In the list of worries to have, it's pretty low on my hierarchy.  Much lower than hegemony, total information awareness, and global policing.  

That same ability to scan ships in transit has freedom-chilling implications when used in other ways.

Cuba wants to sell a defensive SAM system to the norks, that's fine, IMO.  It means Cuba has one less for us to worry about.  Not like they manufacture the things.  Frankly, it means the Cubans perceive less threat from us.

I'd much rather have better relations with nations closer to us, than worry about tin pot idiots 8000 miles away with 50 year old tech that doesn't even work right.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fan_Song_fire_control_radar_of_the_SA-2_SAM-system.JPEG

That's a pic from 1985, where the Egyptians have one installed.

If the Egyptians had one in 1985, then it was likely not terribly modern even then.  I can't find a design/invention date for these things, but this article shows that the Cubans felt it was obsolete and were sending it to the norks for repair.

http://news.yahoo.com/cuba-calls-weapons-north-korean-ship-obsolete-060239902.html

[Gewehr98]

That was not my point.

The Panamanians found the contraband, not Uncle Sam. 

As Scout said, the U.S. hasn't had anything to do with the Panama Canal since 2000.

You can take off the duct tape and trauma plates.

[AZRedhawk44]

You can take off the duct tape and trauma plates.

Maybe when the laundry finishes.  No clean shirts today.

[Scout26]

That's a pic from 1985, where the Egyptians have one installed.

If the Egyptians had one in 1985, then it was likely not terribly modern even then.  I can't find a design/invention date for these things, but this article shows that the Cubans felt it was obsolete and were sending it to the norks for repair.

http://news.yahoo.com/cuba-calls-weapons-north-korean-ship-obsolete-060239902.html

Old =/= obsolete.

Should I even mention the B-52? (First deployed in 1952.)

The F-15 Eagle first flew in July 1972, and entered service in 1976.... The F-15 Eagle is expected to be in service with the U.S. Air Force past 2025.

Prototypes of the M1 Abrams were delivered in 1976... The M1 entered service in 1980.

Over 4,500 F-16's have been built since they production was approved in 1976.

USS Nimitz: Launched 5/72, commissioned 5/75;  USS Eisenhower: Launched 10/75 commissioned10/77; USS Vinson: Launched 3/80, commissioned 3/82; USS Theodore Roosevelt: Launched 10/84, commissioned 10/86

Colt manufactured the first AR-15's in December 1959.  The rifle entered US military service in 1963 in South Vietnam.  

How about the AK-47 (as in 1947)?

The SA-2 Dvina was developed in 1957 (It's what shot down Francis Gary Powers.)  Oh, and ask any pilot, they still work as advertised.

 

[Scout26]

IIRC from back when I did Ocean Freight, the side scanning radar just looks through the container and compares densities to what's on the manifest.  So if you put "Sugar", there should not be missile/launcher shaped holes in your cargo container.   Besides it's their canal, they may not want things that go *BOOM* passing through unless they are sure the proper safeguards are in place.

[Azrael256]

Old =/= obsolete.

Should I even mention the B-52? (First deployed in 1952.)

How about the AK-47 (as in 1947)?

The SA-2 Dvina was developed in 1957 (It's what shot down Francis Gary Powers.)  Oh, and ask any pilot, they still work as advertised.

So do pointy sticks.

I'm not thrilled about the implications of weapons being shipped from Cuba to NK.  I'm somewhat less concerned about a fan song and a low blow, both of which we have decisively defeated at least twice in my lifetime, being shipped to a country which already has them than I am ballistic missile technology leaking from Iran/China.  (I have a license to write run-ons like that)

[KD5NRH]

More to the point, smuggling old, cheap junk on a low value ship is the best way to test whether and where something will get detected.  Sort of like having your stooge try your new method to smuggle a Makarov past airport security before you try with your brand new Kimber.

[Scout26]

Here's an F-16 that tried to run through an SA-3 (deployed in 1961) with Low Blow radar during the Iraq invasion in 2003. (So call that 42+ year old tech.) MAJ Tice ejected safely.

[AZRedhawk44]

Here's an F-16 that tried to run through an SA-3 (deployed in 1961) with Low Blow radar during the Iraq invasion in 2003. (So call that 42+ year old tech.) MAJ Tice ejected safely.

Understood.  75% of the time, it works part of the time.

Shall they also be deprived the use of rifles?  Pistols?  Knives?

Do you expect every country not like us to be defenseless?  Remember this is a defensive weapon.

They're hardly likely to attack us with their fancy SAM radar arrays.

[Azrael256]

Still just as deadly.  



Btw, that photo is from 2003.  The aircraft was shot down in 1991.

Again, call me when they find a ballistic missile.  Or plutonium.  Plutonium would be bad.

It's not nothing that this happened, but I'm not seeing earth shattering shock here.  They have hundreds already.  I'm betting that Cuba was doing a repair/upgrade on NK's radar.

[dm1333]

The canal belongs to Panama, if they don't want the norks shipping missiles through their canal I'd say that is their own business.

[Levant]

Meh.

Radar parts for a piece of commie junk that's older than my parents doesn't exactly get me all excited.  If they find a SS-18 in there, call me.

I have arms older than my parent's parents parents.  The would, in the wrong hands, still kill lots of people.  Dying from dated technology is still dying. 

[Scout26]

To quote Tam:

Cuba claims this is some other dude's ship and they don't know who left the weapons in the hold. They didn't even know those weapons were in there. Also, they were just holding it for somebody else. And they were told they didn't work anyway.

http://news.yahoo.com/cuba-calls-weapons-north-korean-ship-obsolete-060239902.html

Do read the article.  Seems the UN sanctions allows all countries to inspect cargo headed to the Norks.

(And it was a bit more than a couple of radars, 9 missiles; 2 MiG-21's, with 15 spare engines; and two Volga and Pechora SAM systems.)

[AZRedhawk44]

None of which comprises a threat to CONUS.

Heck, none of it comprises a threat to South Korea.


Looks like we've got a difference of opinion here.  You want to disarm them.  I just don't want them to be able to have offensive capabilities against us or our allies.  I don't care about defensive SAMs and a couple of Migs.

[Gewehr98]

So how is that a U.S. inspection, or U.S. puppet inspection?   

[AZRedhawk44]

So how is that a U.S. inspection, or U.S. puppet inspection?   

Panama has been a US puppet project for quite some time.  Mostly due to the strategic value of the canal.

I expect that a Venezuelan canal as discussed earlier will be constantly sabotaged by US interests, to maintain the monopoly that the PC provides.  At least until Venezuelan foreign policy is more in line with US interests.