Negotiating starting salaries

[zahc]

Does anyone familiar with medium-size corporations have any experience with negotiating job offers?

I've been informally extended some "numbers" over the phone, and the numbers are meh. I think I will ask for more, based no the "it can't hurt to ask" theory. I think there is a low probability they will be offended and cancel my offer, and the worst that will happen is they don't budge. But then, maybe there is just no room for negotiating these things. You know how it is in corporations...it can be hard to even figure out who has authority to decide these things; everything is "policy".

[HankB]

Do some research on salaries for they job type and grade - then you'll be armed with knowledge.

Instead of just saying "Gimmie more money!" you're more likely to have success if you can say "For my experience level in field XXX the normal wage is $YYY dollars according to Medium Company Salary Surveys. I think a more reasonable offer would be consistent with industry norms."

If they won't cough up dollars, maybe you can negotiate some other perk - better office, extra week vacation, etc. Depends on how bad they want you and whether or not they have other applicants lined up.

[Monkeyleg]

I hope the "policy" isn't as strict as one I encountered a few years ago.

I had been contacted to interview for a job as manager of an in-house photo studio at a large printing company. It wasn't the sort of job I wanted, but I checked it out anyway.

After the third interview, I was offered the job. I found out then how strict their policy was. When the interviewer mentioned  salary, he said it was a B5 position, and the pay was X. That was much lower than I was expecting or willing to take, and I asked if there was room to negotiate. He said no, and repeated that it was a B5 position. I asked about vacation, and was told that a B5 position gets two weeks after two years. Again, no negotiation. Sick or personal days? None.

[zahc]

Yeah, I suppose they did offer me a "competitive" salary. But I earn a "competitive" salary now, and with the sales tax in N.C., the salary they offered is actually a slight downgrade. Hard to move from a good job while taking a downgrade. Of course they point out that costs-of-living are lower there, but I'm not convinced they are low enough to make up for a 7% sales tax. Even if that's true, it doesn't leave me with any incentive to move, except that fact that I actually want to move anyway, which they might be banking on.

My decision would be a lot easier if there was at least a minor raise involved. As it is, after my current company makes a counter-offer (not that I would accept, since I think it's probably not wise) then I really will be taking a paycut to move.

Another thing...they offered me stock options. What is typically the strike price of the options when they do that? I am perfectly fine with being compensated with stock, as it can be tax-efficient. But the strike price really matters; the fact that they didn't mention it makes me think there must be a "usual" practice here.

[Brad Johnson]

Of course they point out that costs-of-living are lower there, but I'm not convinced they are low enough to make up for a 7% sales tax.

That's easy, it's a straight math question of the diff in COL indexes.  Also, do you go in/out of state income taxation?

As for stock option prices, look at NASDAQ/NYMEX/NYSE.

Brad

[zahc]

I would be moving from TX (no income tax) to NC (7% income tax). That calculation is easy to normalize for. But where can I find COL indices? I've checked out several "equivalent salary" online tools, but they never say if they are accounting for the difference in taxation or not.

I know that the stock price is public knowledge, but the strike price of the options is what is in question. It's actually the strike price that makes them meaningful, because anyone can buy stocks whenever they want at the market price...

[Brad Johnson]

I would be moving from TX (no income tax) to NC (7% income tax).

That's clearer.  Before you referred to a "sales" tax.

Brad

[Sawdust]

The strike price can be anything that they want it to be.

You need to see the offer sheet for the options.

Also important is the vesting period (usually four years; i.e., 25% vested each year)

Sawdust

[zahc]

Well, Fedex brought me a package that says the grant price of the options is the fair-market-value of the stock on the date of hire. More meh.

[RoadKingLarry]

The no income tax in Texas is made up or by higher sales taxes, property taxes and other taxes. That needs to be considered as well. Your 7% income tax in NC is also subject to the same sort of deductions as fed income taxes.

[charby]

What do you do for a living?

[CNYCacher]

This looked promising
http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living/

[zahc]

I saw that website, but it STILL does NOT explain whether the numbers already account for income tax or not. So its pretty useless unless I know that.

I'm an engineer and work in semiconductors now, but I'm trying to move closer to the midwest for family reasons.

[HankB]

The no income tax in Texas is made up or by higher sales taxes, property taxes and other taxes. That needs to be considered as well. Your 7% income tax in NC is also subject to the same sort of deductions as fed income taxes.

When I moved to TX from MN, my total tax bite went down - I was definitely money ahead. The differences in property taxes and sales taxes eroded my income far less than the income tax did.

Well, Fedex brought me a package that says the grant price of the options is the fair-market-value of the stock on the date of hire. More meh.

That's the way my employer runs *most* of the option grants - you then can exercise at the grant price after 1 year, but if you don't after 10 years, the option expires. Not too bad a deal depending on 1)whether you stay with the company or not; 2) whether the stock goes up or not; and 3) how many shares in your grant.

[charby]

I'm an engineer and work in semiconductors now, but I'm trying to move closer to the midwest for family reasons.

EE?

Also why not move to the state where the family resides? Texas and NC are both about the same distance drive time from MW.

[zahc]

My degrees are in physics and materials science. I do some EE work but I'm basically a process engineer.

Ohio is in the Midwest. There are companies in Ohio, but none offering me a job right now.

The difference is 7 hours drive verses 16. It doesn't sound like much, but it's the difference between a 1 day of driving and 2 longer days of driving. If we stay in Texas, the kids will never see their grandparents. If we move, we can probably see them on most major holidays. Plus, my parents aren't getting any younger.

[Balog]

If the calculator includes total tax burden for each area, then it seems like a wash if they don't specifically break it out.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Making a choice to be close to family is a good one. Assuming its good family. It's smarter than I was.

[charby]

My degrees are in physics and materials science. I do some EE work but I'm basically a process engineer.

Ohio is in the Midwest. There are companies in Ohio, but none offering me a job right now.

The difference is 7 hours drive verses 16. It doesn't sound like much, but it's the difference between a 1 day of driving and 2 longer days of driving. If we stay in Texas, the kids will never see their grandparents. If we move, we can probably see them on most major holidays. Plus, my parents aren't getting any younger.

How about Iowa? John Deere seems to be on a hiring spree. Most of Ohio is about a days drive away from the John Deer towns. There is a lot of smaller firms that hire physicists/materials people.
If you do come to Iowa, I recommend renting for at least the 1st year and use that year to find out which neighborhood you want to live in. Our income tax is kind of high, but other things are cheaper like car insurance/ vehicle registration/ property taxes.

[zahc]

How about Iowa? John Deere seems to be on a hiring spree. Most of Ohio is about a days drive away from the John Deer towns. There is a lot of smaller firms that hire physicists/materials people.

It's on the table. Right now, though, I have an offer I have to deal with.

I started my current job 3 years ago at 75k and am up to about 85k now. However, the compensation curve for EE/process engineers is a decaying one, and I can expect to get only nominal raises. There is very little opportunity for real advancement, but work will be steady. I also deal with large-company BS every day, which can be soul-sucking.

The new company is offering me a total compensation package which is slightly weaker than I have now, even considering cost-of-living, but the pay cut is not enough to affect my lifestyle, and still more than what I made fresh out of college 3 years ago. The company is smaller and growing, and I feel there will be more opportunity for real advancement in the ~5 year time frame. So it's not a bad deal. And I want to move there, and they know that. So it's almost a happiness vs. money situation, except there is always the unknown of moving across the country, vs. "the devil you know".

Move to a possibly more enjoyable job with a better location and good future opportunity, but take a very small pay cut to do it

vs.

Stay where I'm at, where I'm not particularly enjoying myself, where advancement will be slow but steady, and I don't have to move

I'm actually spoiled that I have such options available.

[vaskidmark]

In TX you are making X, and have the following expenses <insert spresadsheet1>

In NC you will be making Y, and have the following anticipated expenses <insert spreadsheet2>

Net remainder of spreadsheet2 should be greater than net remainder of spreadsheet1 by a factor of <insert International Fudge Factor> plus relocation expenses amoratized over <2, 5, or 7> years, understanding that relocation involves more than U-Haul/moving company rental.  Registering vehicles, professional licenses, termination of and initiation of phone/tv/internet services, new checks (get some - even if it's only 50.  You will need one or two in your lifetime), changes/updates in professional and social organization memberships, country club/pool hall/bowling alley iniation & membership just to list a few.

Discount relocation expenses by how much you want/need to get away from your present job RFN as opposed to hanging in another <3, 2, 1> years max.

THAT's how much you will need to accept a job with them without becoming bankrupt.

stay safe.

[geronimotwo]

perhaps you could approach this from the "this is where (insert your preferred job/salary) I would like to be in 5 years, what would I have to do to get there" type of approach? then, if they agree, have it laid out in writing.

[Tallpine]

My degrees are in physics and materials science. I do some EE work but I'm basically a process engineer.

Ohio is in the Midwest. There are companies in Ohio, but none offering me a job right now.

The difference is 7 hours drive verses 16. It doesn't sound like much, but it's the difference between a 1 day of driving and 2 longer days of driving. If we stay in Texas, the kids will never see their grandparents. If we move, we can probably see them on most major holidays. Plus, my parents aren't getting any younger.

The company I work for has its HQ in Cinncinati.  Of course they place people all over the country and sometimes beyond.  They do a lot of work for a certain very large corporation that has a couple of capital letters in its name.

Let me know if you want some contact info.

[charby]

Speaking of capital letters.

ALCOA

Two jobs in Davenport, IA. (there are others for that location also)

Process Engineer
Metallurgical Engineer

[Harold Tuttle]

http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=Bath+Salt+geisha&l1=