Two topics for the price of one

[zxcvbob]

1) I go thru a lot of cheap hotplates; about one a year.  They don't last long because I'm working them pretty hard, melting 10 to 20 pounds of lead at a time, and they get weak or burn out after a while.  At $10 a shot, I'm OK with that... but the cheap ones with open coils are getting hard to find, and the cast iron top hotplates don't get hot enough.

I was looking at walmart.com at their hotplates (I can't find the ones I like at Walgreens anymore) and they have a 1300W induction hotplate for $60.  That sounds like just the ticket -- except for a couple of potential problems:  Are they somehow temperature limited to about 500° or so?  (If I heat a pot way beyond normal cooking temps, will it think I let the pot boil dry and try to save me from it?)  And will the glass or ceramic surface be OK with a 900° crucible (Revereware saucepan) sitting on it, or will it crack?

I can probably find a use for it in my kitchen even if it doesn't work in the garage... as long as I don't ruin it the first time I try it.

2) Let's say it doesn't work (or not well.)  I have a discarded freon tank that would make a lovely crucible if I cut one end off.  What would be a good (cheap) 240V electric heating element to wrap around it, and how to attach it?  Then it would need some kind of thermal insulation wrap...

[lee n. field]

Interesting.  I've not had real good luck with hot plates for smelting wheelweights.  Just can't seem to get them hot enough. 

[Brad Johnson]

Dudes... 

Ditch the hotplates, forget the induction unit, and stop trying to southern-engineer a solution.  Get a dedicated lead pot and you'll be a lot happier, a lot longer.

Lee Magnum lead furnace.




20# capacity.  $60.

http://www.jannsnetcraft.com/lead-melters-tools/734307909499.aspx



Lee also has the Precision Pro 4 that runs about $100.  I just checked and both furnaces are available on Amazon.

Brad

[lee n. field]

I am wondering if I need to go that route.  I have a 10lb Lee Production Pot, and I wonder if it's really hot enough.

[zxcvbob]

I have a dedicated lead melter, a 20# Lee bottom-pour, but I never put scrap in it (sprues and reject bullets don't count.)  

I'm breaking down filthy lead into "corncob" ingots.  The clean ingots go in the Lee pot when I'm ready to cast bullets.

I probably have a lifetime supply of lead now, but I'm not sure so I keep accumulating it.  It doesn't take up that much room when processed; a 5 gallon bucket of stacked ingots is well over 300#, and might be over 400.

ETA:

I am wondering if I need to go that route.  I have a 10lb Lee Production Pot, and I wonder if it's really hot enough.

My Lee 20-pounder will get well over 900, and that's not even turned up all the way.  Maybe you have zinc wheel weights?  (if so, not melting them is a blessing, just a few will ruin a big pot of lead)

[lee n. field]

I doubt there's zinc in the mix.  IT's easy enough to pick out.  When in doubt, drop it on the concrete.  It sounds different.  Plus, the last bucket of lead was range waste.

My Lee 20-pounder will get well over 900, and that's not even turned up all the way.

Last batch, even with the heat cranked as high as it would go, many bullets weren't filled out well.

[Brad Johnson]

I doubt there's zinc in the mix.  IT's easy enough to pick out.  When in doubt, drop it on the concrete.  It sounds different.  Plus, the last bucket of lead was range waste.

Last batch, even with the heat cranked as high as it would go, many bullets weren't filled out well.

Sounds like a cold mold problem.  If the metal is flowing in the furnace then you need to do more preheat on your mold.

Brad

[Warhorse]

I doubt there's zinc in the mix.  IT's easy enough to pick out.  When in doubt, drop it on the concrete.  It sounds different.  Plus, the last bucket of lead was range waste.

Last batch, even with the heat cranked as high as it would go, many bullets weren't filled out well.

Either the mold is not up to proper temperature or you need to add some tin to the lead. About 2" worth of a plumbers solder bar to 10 lb of lead will make a world of difference in fully filling out the mold. It's highly unlikely that the lee lead pot is not able to get sufficiently hot. If you are still in doubt, buy a thermometer designed for the purpose. The last time I checked they were going for under $10.


Warhorse

[Jim147]

An old cast iron pot and a propane burner would last you for years. You won't be happy with induction to do more then deep fry.

jim

[lee n. field]

Either the mold is not up to proper temperature or you need to add some tin to the lead. About 2" worth of a plumbers solder bar to 10 lb of lead will make a world of difference in fully filling out the mold. It's highly unlikely that the lee lead pot is not able to get sufficiently hot. If you are still in doubt, buy a thermometer designed for the purpose. The last time I checked they were going for under $10.


Warhorse

I'm seeing $40 to $50 for a lead thermometer.  What are you seeing under $10?

[zxcvbob]

I'm seeing $40 to $50 for a lead thermometer.  What are you seeing under $10?

Probably a distant memory.  I paid $30 for mine about 5 years ago, and I'm a cheapskate who looked around for a while.

Taylor might make an industrial thermometer that's cheaper than a RCBS or Lyman... but I doubt it.  Not in the right range anyway.

[Triphammer]

I bought an electronic from Harbor Freight for ten dollars a year ago. K thermocouple good to 1200 F

[Marnoot]

Regarding the induction hotplates, many of the bad reviews I've seen when I've looked at them before complain about them always shutting off due to the "don't sue us!" thermal breakers they all have, which would greatly limit their usefulness for your purpose.

[AJ Dual]

I'm kind of amazed any of the hotplates survived as long as they did. They're meant to cook or boil foods which are high in water content and will pump a lot of the heat away as steam as they reach 212 degrees etc.

I'd go with a cheap cast iron pot and a single gas burner.

http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-2000004125-PowerPack-1-Burner-Stove/dp/B0009PUS6M

http://www.amazon.com/Mountain-Cast-Iron-Preseasoned-Kettle/dp/B00E2QDXNO/ref=sr_1_24?s=outdoor-recreation&ie=UTF8&qid=1375236687&sr=1-24&keywords=cast+iron+pot

Cheap yard sale finds preferable etc.  The really serious lead bugs will just do a dutch oven or other cast iron cauldron over a turkey fryer stand. If they're ambitious, they'll drill and tap the cauldron for a brass spigot with a ball valve.

Although to be honest, I've used my Lee 10lb production pot to melt scrap and range lead. Although I agree it's not very efficient. I flux three times, once with sawdust, once with wax, and once with Frankford Arsenal mix. I just drain it nearly all the way when I'm done, and then re-melt and mix muffin tin ingots back and forth to get a consistent alloy. I haven't had any problems with casting afterward. 90% of what I cast is 1oz Lee Foster style shotgun slugs for my Saiga. And with that large a pour, I will say it's a pretty demanding test, and will give you voids and wrinkles easily if there's any problems.

[RoadKingLarry]

I melt lead for casting on an old flea market Coleman stove with a propane adapter using a flea market cast iron pot that holds about 20#. I cast at 700*+ using Lee and Lyman moulds.

For cleaning wheel wieghts and scrap lead I use a turkey fryer with a flea market 12 qt cast iron dutch oven.

I did buy a Lee pro 20 bottom pour but I couldn't get decent results from it so I went back to the pot and ladle.

[Perd Hapley]

...stop trying to southern-engineer a solution. 

 

[zxcvbob]

I bought an electronic from Harbor Freight for ten dollars a year ago. K thermocouple good to 1200 F

I forgot about K thermocouples.    So you got a digital multimeter for $10 that will read a thermocouple, or what?

[zxcvbob]

I'm kind of amazed any of the hotplates survived as long as they did. They're meant to cook or boil foods which are high in water content and will pump a lot of the heat away as steam as they reach 212 degrees etc.

I think what really takes the life out of them is when I put a potful of slag and skimmings and heavy sand on, with a generous shot of old motor oil stirred it for a reducing agent, and cook the heck out of it with the lid on to convert it back into lead.  (literally smelting; the yield is about 50%)  I've quit doing that out of respect for the hotplates -- yes they really do get hot enough to do that -- but I do have a 5 gallon bucket full of the stuff that needs to be processed or disposed of somehow.  

I may do it in a couple of batches in that previously-mentioned freon tank, in the middle of a wood fire.  Especially if my buddy who has bonfires a couple of times a year will let me put it in the middle of his fire. :)

[Triphammer]

I forgot about K thermocouples.    So you got a digital multimeter for $10 that will read a thermocouple, or what?

No the whole meter, came w/ a K thermocouple to be an entire digital thermometer that reads in F, C & K
Might have been twelve bucks.

[Jim147]

I might let you put it in my bonfire but I'm not going to be downwind and I'm not sure what would be left.  My bonfires are not small.

jim

[AJ Dual]

I might let you put it in my bonfire but I'm not going to be downwind and I'm not sure what would be left.  My bonfires are not small.

jim

You'd have to get to well over 3000° F and sustain it for awhile to have any chance of boiling the lead to get significant vapor exposure, much less actually reduce the amount available for casting at the end. Even Lead Oxide(II) the most common form, like would be on the skins of found range lead, boils at around 2600°, so unless there's bellows, or charcoal, or even better, coke involved, the risks are minimal. 

In reality, almost all the lead exposure from smelting/melting/casting activities is mechanical in nature, splashes, droplets, scraps, and dust etc. Not from vapor.

[Jim147]

Hedge, cedar and a coal base. I've powdered aluminum to nothing and melted glass. I think I'm getting close.

jim

[AJ Dual]

Aluminum melts around 1200° or so, depending on the alloy. Oxidizing it rapidly/"burning" it, something thin like a beverage can, or foil maybe even less.

Glass is around 1000-1500° depending on the formulation. Pure quartz/silica being on the high end of that range. Still a little less than halfway there to boiling lead. 

[mtnbkr]

Dudes... 

Ditch the hotplates, forget the induction unit, and stop trying to southern-engineer a solution.  Get a dedicated lead pot and you'll be a lot happier, a lot longer.

Lee Magnum lead furnace.




20# capacity.  $60.

http://www.jannsnetcraft.com/lead-melters-tools/734307909499.aspx



Lee also has the Precision Pro 4 that runs about $100.  I just checked and both furnaces are available on Amazon.

Brad

You don't smelt dirty lead WWs and other scrap in your casting pot. 

I use a turkey fryer and old steel pot to smelt my allow and cast into small bars.  I then melt those bars in my Lee bottom pour pot for casting bullets.

Chris

[Brad Johnson]

I use a turkey fryer and old steel pot to smelt my allow

What's an 'allow', and why are you putting a fish on it?

Brad