Author Topic: Ammo Shortage, JIT inventory systems, and taxes  (Read 15365 times)

Tallpine

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Re: Ammo Shortage, JIT inventory systems, and taxes
« Reply #50 on: August 04, 2013, 05:36:38 PM »
Quote
The only good arguments for property taxes are roads and sewer and I'm not too certain about roads. 

Only sewer out here is each home's private septic system.

The roads are problematic.  Years before we moved out here, a bunch of the neighbors got together and bought gravel to put on the road.  Since then, mostly the county has just been grading it off into the ditches, or saucering the road so it holds water.  I've told our commissioner that if they are not going to do it right then they might as well not do it at all.  A local road association hiring a private contractor would work out better.  Heck, I could do it better after a couple days practice and I've never run a grader - just some little Cats and farm tractors with 3pt blades.

Our local VFD is part of the county.  We get about half our budget from them and the other half from donations.  The country also covers most of the fuel, insurance and exempt plates, and the dispatch system such as it is.  Fire fighting is one thing that can quickly overwhelm local resources.  I'm not too unhappy about paying taxes for fire suppression, but sure as hell I want all of that mill levy to go where it's designated.  Our county has a nasty habit of doling out few funds to the fire departments, and then at the end of the year rolling the unspent money into the general fund  :mad:
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French G.

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Re: Ammo Shortage, JIT inventory systems, and taxes
« Reply #51 on: August 04, 2013, 05:46:24 PM »
Only if the VFD starts non-payers' homes on fire.  Otherwise, it sounds pretty nice. 

We already have a voluntary homeowners' association to which I pay dues.  I could see several banding together to support such a VFD & VPD.

I would see setting non-payers homes on fire or implying the threat as an inevitable outcome. I grew up in VFD land, support them, live across the street from one. I can't imagine them questioning whether someone paid up or not. They're smarter than that anyway, sell raffle tickets for guns.
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

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Re: Ammo Shortage, JIT inventory systems, and taxes
« Reply #52 on: August 04, 2013, 06:54:22 PM »
I would see setting non-payers homes on fire or implying the threat as an inevitable outcome. I grew up in VFD land, support them, live across the street from one. I can't imagine them questioning whether someone paid up or not. They're smarter than that anyway, sell raffle tickets for guns.

Well, that is their policy in some places.  Think we discussed it here on APS once.
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Tallpine

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Re: Ammo Shortage, JIT inventory systems, and taxes
« Reply #53 on: August 04, 2013, 06:57:47 PM »
Well, that is their policy in some places.  Think we discussed it here on APS once.

Sorta like those damn insurance companies that expect you to pay premiums before you have a fire  =D
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Ammo Shortage, JIT inventory systems, and taxes
« Reply #54 on: August 04, 2013, 07:54:24 PM »
I am a member of a volunteer fire department district.  There's no reason that all fire departments don't operate that way.  You pay, you get fire protection.  You don't pay and the fire department only protects your neighbors from your fire - and then bills you for what service they provided to your neighbors.


You also kinda left out the twenty or so percent increase in your home insurance premiums for areas without a full-time fire department.  More if the population density is very low or the coverage area is large.

Brad
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lupinus

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Re: Ammo Shortage, JIT inventory systems, and taxes
« Reply #55 on: August 04, 2013, 08:21:48 PM »
Working in logistics, specifically the inbound side of it and the guy that all emails of "whens this coming in? The stores needed it yesterday ZOMG my bonus!!!!!" filter down to.

I can say fully.

And unequivocally.

That the JIT inventory model can die in a *expletive deleted*ing nuclear fire, be pissed out by the kraken, it's bones gnawed down by the spawn of cthulhu, and the little cthulhu spawn turds be mixed with the ashes of inept corporate VP's so as to eternally curse their souls.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Levant

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Re: Ammo Shortage, JIT inventory systems, and taxes
« Reply #56 on: August 04, 2013, 09:27:42 PM »
Only sewer out here is each home's private septic system.

The roads are problematic.  Years before we moved out here, a bunch of the neighbors got together and bought gravel to put on the road.  Since then, mostly the county has just been grading it off into the ditches, or saucering the road so it holds water.  I've told our commissioner that if they are not going to do it right then they might as well not do it at all.  A local road association hiring a private contractor would work out better.  Heck, I could do it better after a couple days practice and I've never run a grader - just some little Cats and farm tractors with 3pt blades.

Our local VFD is part of the county.  We get about half our budget from them and the other half from donations.  The country also covers most of the fuel, insurance and exempt plates, and the dispatch system such as it is.  Fire fighting is one thing that can quickly overwhelm local resources.  I'm not too unhappy about paying taxes for fire suppression, but sure as hell I want all of that mill levy to go where it's designated.  Our county has a nasty habit of doling out few funds to the fire departments, and then at the end of the year rolling the unspent money into the general fund  :mad:

I think your post proves that citizens do it better for themselves - both in the fire protection and roads.  Folks are in a panic at just the suggestion they do it themselves but had it always been that way they really wouldn't even give it a second thought.

You also kinda left out the twenty or so percent increase in your home insurance premiums for areas without a full-time fire department.  More if the population density is very low or the coverage area is large.

Brad

So you want all the rest of us to subsidize your insurance costs with our property taxes?  I'm not sure that's what you're saying but if it is, then I'd counter that your insurance would be easily affordable if you could get rid of most of your property taxes... and your insurance would be easily affordable if the government got out of your contract with your insurance company.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Ammo Shortage, JIT inventory systems, and taxes
« Reply #57 on: August 04, 2013, 10:29:26 PM »

So you want all the rest of us to subsidize your insurance costs with our property taxes?  I'm not sure that's what you're saying but if it is, then I'd counter that your insurance would be easily affordable if you could get rid of most of your property taxes... and your insurance would be easily affordable if the government got out of your contract with your insurance company.

Okay, so you get rid of the property taxes and replace them with organization-based service fees.  It's no longer a "tax", sure, but the cost is the same and your insurance rate hasn't changed.  Result?  You still pay the same but you lose the inter-service coordination and the generally better results it provides.  Reality is kinda brutal that way.

Brad
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Levant

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Re: Ammo Shortage, JIT inventory systems, and taxes
« Reply #58 on: August 04, 2013, 11:23:49 PM »
Okay, so you get rid of the property taxes and replace them with organization-based service fees.  It's no longer a "tax", sure, but the cost is the same and your insurance rate hasn't changed.  Result?  You still pay the same but you lose the inter-service coordination and the generally better results it provides.  Reality is kinda brutal that way.

Brad

How's that inter-service coordination working for you in law enforcement and anti-terrorism?

There's a whole lot of things the government does that is sold as being for my own good and to make my life easier, more secure, and safer.  I'd rather live in a one-room cabin with my family and eek out a living tilling the ground behind an ox or to work in a factory 6 days a week from sun up to sun down and to be able to call myself a man and, whatever it is that I have, it's because I earned it myself.  And whatever I don't have is because I didn't earn it.  You may like government and want them to take care of you.  If so, you should turn in your guns and get in line for the koolaid.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Ammo Shortage, JIT inventory systems, and taxes
« Reply #59 on: August 04, 2013, 11:42:59 PM »
How's that inter-service coordination working for you in law enforcement and anti-terrorism?


Considering that Lubbock is still on the map, that everything is relatively quiet, and that a call to 911 will have police, fire, and EMS most anywhere in town within 2-3 minutes, pretty well, actually.

Brad
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brimic

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Re: Ammo Shortage, JIT inventory systems, and taxes
« Reply #60 on: August 05, 2013, 12:06:06 AM »
Well, you could say JIT was the result of taxation, or…..

You could say it:

1. Reduces overall capital investment in non-producing space (i.e. Warehouse)
2. Reduces manpower demands needed to operate said non-producing space
3. Reduces ongoing operational expenses required for maintenance and upkeep of said non-producing space
4. Reduces resources tied up in non-performing materials that will be housed in said non-producing space
5. Reduces supply-side inventory write-offs in the event a product is no longer marketable
6. Maximizes production flexibility
etc...
etc...
etc...

So, again, you could say it was the result of taxation, or you could take off the conspiracy-theory blinders and call it what it really is… ... a better business model for capital-strapped small to medium volume manufacturing firms that want to reduce capital investment expenses, minimize overhead and ongoing operational expenses, maximize flexibility, and generally max out the net revenue potential for their given financial wherewithal.

Brad

p.s. The taxation theory only works in locales that assess a production inventory tax.  Not all do.
7. Increases Operational cash flow.
All of that.

I had to be dragged kicking and screaming over several years to accept this paradigm, but accept it I now do.

I worked for a business in the past that by all obvious measures, should have been successful- products in high demand, great employees, excellent working conditions... The business only stayed open because they were able to keep getting money from investors and grants from local government- their cash flow was a horrendous mess due to huge inventories of raw and finished goods and very unfavorable agreements with customers and suppliers.
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brimic

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Re: Re: Re: Ammo Shortage, JIT inventory systems, and taxes
« Reply #61 on: August 05, 2013, 12:21:35 AM »
My property taxes are quite low. i like having a fire department, police department, and a good library here in my county.

Except in our country, we traded property 'ownership' for nice things that people like to have.
Regardless of how low your property taxes are, the concept of 'property ownership' is a big lie.
At best you are paying a lease to your state and locality to 'occupy' a property- a lease that can be cancelled at any time due to communal needs (or even the 'needs' of a higher bidder- See Kelo vs City of New London) or non-payment of the 'lease.'

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Tallpine

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Re: Re: Re: Ammo Shortage, JIT inventory systems, and taxes
« Reply #62 on: August 05, 2013, 11:06:41 AM »
Except in our country, we traded property 'ownership' for nice things that people like to have.
Regardless of how low your property taxes are, the concept of 'property ownership' is a big lie.
At best you are paying a lease to your state and locality to 'occupy' a property- a lease that can be cancelled at any time due to communal needs (or even the 'needs' of a higher bidder- See Kelo vs City of New London) or non-payment of the 'lease.'



Schools are about 75% of property taxes, which is hardly connected to the use of your property.  The remainder wouldn't be so bad (for fire, roads, etc).  In theory, it is worth something for the recording/protection of property ownership versus having to pay for an armed guard all the time to keep someone from taking over your place.  In practice, the county doesn't really care about property owners because there is no profit to be made other than the taxes extorted.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Ammo Shortage, JIT inventory systems, and taxes
« Reply #63 on: August 05, 2013, 11:56:56 AM »
A few years ago there was whispers of the town moving to annex the area I live in. I had the chance to talk to a city council member that was kind of on the fence about it. I asked him what benefit would the property owners get out of it besides increases in taxes, was the city going to install a sewer system out here?
There are 3-4 curmudgeons out this way that are pretty much dead set against getting annexed into the city limits, all of us made a point to let our friends in city government know that they really didn't want any of us eligable to run for city office or vote in city elections or even address city council meetings as residents.
We haven't heard anymore about it for a couple years. I don't know if we changed their minds or if they decided the added tax base just wasn't worth the effort.
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Re: Ammo Shortage, JIT inventory systems, and taxes
« Reply #64 on: August 05, 2013, 01:43:44 PM »

what is this i dont even ??

Wal-Mart is not morally obligated to have everything you need. YOU are obligated to take care of you and yours. If you can't depend on Heartless Corporation to make sure that stuff is available, then store your own stuff.
 :facepalm:

 ;/

It was in reference to Brad Johnson's posts, nothing you wrote so feel free to untwist your panties.

What I was referring to, btw.

Nah, what I have is three decades of business experience showing me the modelers are generally right.  Plus, I have this thing called a "calculator" and something called "history" that let's me figure up a "budget" which, in turn, let's me develop a "business plan" and "goals" which includes such alien things as "risk analysis" and "net revenue estimates".  Esoteric stuff, I know, but I find it to be quite useful.

Brad
« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 01:47:14 PM by Balog »
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Ammo Shortage, JIT inventory systems, and taxes
« Reply #65 on: August 05, 2013, 03:07:10 PM »
;/

It was in reference to Brad Johnson's posts, nothing you wrote so feel free to untwist your panties.

What I was referring to, btw.


Untwist my panties, eh? I'm not the one taking things personally, and getting offended. Why the inventory practices of certain businesses provokes such emotion I do not understand.

And FWIW, I knew you were talking to Brad.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 03:10:40 PM by fistful »
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Balog

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Re: Ammo Shortage, JIT inventory systems, and taxes
« Reply #66 on: August 05, 2013, 03:54:04 PM »
This the forum that almost restarted the Civil War over how to make cornbread. Probably not a surprise.

And I'm not taking things personally or getting offended, merely pointing out that speaking as though anyone disagreeing with you is a moron is condescending and arrogant.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Ammo Shortage, JIT inventory systems, and taxes
« Reply #67 on: August 05, 2013, 03:55:57 PM »
Tastes Great!

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Re: Ammo Shortage, JIT inventory systems, and taxes
« Reply #68 on: August 05, 2013, 04:00:52 PM »
This the forum that almost restarted the Civil War over how to make cornbread. Probably not a surprise.

And I'm not taking things personally or getting offended, merely pointing out that speaking as though anyone disagreeing with you is a moron is condescending and arrogant.

Also the old rural general store method of inventorying seasonally doesn't work any more in the modern economy. I remember as a teenager going to get ammo from the local hardware store and having to wait a couple weeks for my order to process because they were out of that in inventory and had to get a big enough shipment to make it profitable for the store.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Ammo Shortage, JIT inventory systems, and taxes
« Reply #69 on: August 05, 2013, 04:38:53 PM »
Tastes Great!



Less filli... WHATTHEHECK??



I see what you did there. 



Brad
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Scout26

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Re: Ammo Shortage, JIT inventory systems, and taxes
« Reply #70 on: August 05, 2013, 05:33:26 PM »
Warehouse space costs money.  (Light, Heat, the building, property taxes etc.) 

If I can plan my production so that I ship product to my customers shortly before they need it.  They can also dedicate more shelf space to different items.  I can have 3 boxes of 10 items or to make AZR44 happy, I can have 30 boxes of 1 item.  (Then I'd have to listen to AZR44 grouse about "All they carry is one item, and not the one I need!!")  Damned if you do damned if you don't. 

Before I took OCP's warehouse we have $15 Million in inventory in a 500K sq ft. warehouse.  Annual sales were around $70million a year.  So for every 1 dollar in SALES (not profit) we went and literally put it on a shelf.  Not on new equipment, not spent on marketing (probably a good thing), salaries, R&D, or anything else.  We put $$$ in racks and on pallets on the floor.  A year later that was down to $5 million even though we had merged with another company and absorbed their inventory.  We sold quite a bit of obsolete inventory for pennies on the dollar.   It was even more critical for us since ours was a seasonal business.  Having $$$$ tied up in old inventory would not have allowed us to pay our bills during the slow season and order new materials for upcoming season.

See all that inventory is $$$$  You have to pay for it.  Everything you see sitting on a shelf in (most) stores is money.  The store has paid for that and is holding it waiting for you to buy it.     

So if you hate JIT, put your money where your mouth is.  Take 1/5th of your pay and put it in a safe. (Not a bank account or other investment), just let it sit for a year a more.  Let inflation eat it away.   It's even worse with old out of date product, the longer it sits the smaller the ROI until you get to the point your giving it away just to get rid of it.   Now, if you do hang on to it long enough, it just might become collectible.   (depending on the item).

And Lupinus, probably the reason you get the e-mails is i would guess it comes from 10% of the store managers, the ones that don't know how figure their stocking levels for various items, and constantly either under order or don't maintain what they should.    The only problems I ever had (both at OCP and B-Way) was when something weird happened.  "Wow, XYZ set a record for how much paint they made in one day, they are now out of cans, ship them everything we have." 

That's what going on with ammo.  Ammo manufacturer's have years and years of sales data on how much of each caliber they pruduce and ship.  (Along with annual growth and/or declines), so they produce to that number, even though AZR44 thinks they should have whatever he wants whenever he wants it, at a reasonable price, no matter their costs.   We did the same thing at B-way with 1/2 pint cans, switch one of the lines over, run what we knew we would sell in a year plus a little more.  Which was a roughly 7 to 10 days  worth of production time.  Stick them in the warehouse and ship them out over the course of the year as orders came in.  Now.  It took three days to change the line from pints to half-pints and another three days to change it back.  So we had to make enough pints to cover orders during that 2-3 weeks we wouldn't be making pints.   We only did it once a year because a can line not making cans was not making money (but we still had to pay people to do the changeovers.    That was roughly 6 days out of 240 production days lost.  Which is why we only did once a year.

It happened a few years ago with .380 ammo.   They would make X amount of .380 ammo once a year, put it in the warehouse, change the machines over to different caliber and sell to the ammo wholesalers out of stock.   Well Ruger, S&W and bunch of other companies all cme out with .380 (Six IIRC) at about the same time.  Demand for .380 ammo, which for years had been X, suddenly went to 3, 4, 5, 6 times X.  .380 became unobtainium.

Same thing has happened since December.  Once the TPTB decided that  EBR's, PMags, and ammo shoudl be unobtainium, everyone and their brother has gone out an d bought, bought bought.  Far above and beyond their previous usage and they are not using it, just hoarding it. 

AZR44 is the ammo that you are coveting to buy replacement for what you used (current consumption) or to add to your pile/hoard? 

They answer to that question will give you the answer as to why you can't find it.


And it's not JIT inventory's fault.  It's our fault for pushing demand far beyond the production capacity.  Yes, I know ammo makers should just have machines, materials and workers sitting around waiting for the next panic so that you won't be inconvenienced.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Ammo Shortage, JIT inventory systems, and taxes
« Reply #71 on: August 05, 2013, 06:07:03 PM »
^^^ Wurd.

Brad
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Ammo Shortage, JIT inventory systems, and taxes
« Reply #72 on: August 05, 2013, 06:11:09 PM »
Scout, your argument makes sense when applied to high tech items that have rapid depreciation cycles.

Ammo... does not.

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Re: Ammo Shortage, JIT inventory systems, and taxes
« Reply #73 on: August 05, 2013, 06:25:43 PM »
A good point. Also, with metal prices rising, making it now instead of later might payoff, considering the ammo may actually be appreciating in the warehouse, and not depreciating.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Ammo Shortage, JIT inventory systems, and taxes
« Reply #74 on: August 05, 2013, 06:34:37 PM »
...merely pointing out that speaking as though anyone disagreeing with you is a moron is condescending and arrogant.


Are you talking about your own posts, or Brad's? You haven't exactly been taking the high road in this discussion, so I have to ask.
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