Homeowners associations

[Levant]

I am curious, what do you all think about homeowners associations?  Is it worth giving up some liberty to keep up the value of your home?  Would you rather your neighbors be free do do as they choose on their property or would you rather they have a nicely trimmed lawn?

Granted, no one has to buy into a homeowners association so they always get to choose, but once in, what if your priorities change?  What if you change into a hippy and want to have solar power and raise chickens?  What if you turn into a conservative libertarian and want to have solar power and raise chickens?

I live on about 3 acres of what was a farm that got built up in the 50s. 90% of the remaining lots are .5 acre or 1 acre but there are some hillside lots larger since the land is virtually unusable.  My lot was the first sold; I'm the second owner after the subdivision was created.  My lot and the second-sold (my in-law's lot) were sold before the HOA was put in and the rest of the division has covenants.  Every once in a while someone from the HOA comes to my house or my father-in-laws to tell us we're out of compliance for some thing or another and we have to educate them that their covenants don't work for us.

To me, I'd rather live next to a neighbor that was free and lived in a converted school bus than to surrender my liberty to ensure that my neighbor mows his lawn.

[Northwoods]

Here in WA its all but impossible to avoid HOA's, unless the neighborhood is probably >30 yearls old, if not more. 

[charby]

They have their places, they are not for everyone but they seem to work well most of the time when people want to live in a clean neighborhood in areas where zoning laws are lax.

[Tallpine]

We don't have an HOA here and I don't want one.

Right now we have pretty good neighbors.  Not fancy, most have some livestock, etc but nothing offensive.  Of course the places nearby are 40-160 acres, and a half mile away in two directions are large ranches.

There is a place down the creek about five miles and off on a side road that is horrible.  They collect old trailer houses and junk cars, plus they have goats and sheep that have eaten their place to dirt and they turn them out on the neighbors.  Several of those neighbors are friends of ours, and they said those people have actually opened their gates and turned stock into their fenced pastures.  I'm afraid that I wouldn't put up with the loose stock issue as nicely as they do    Cattle can run loose legally but not goats/sheep/horses as I understand MT law.

There are some original covenants which are notable in that none have ever been enforced to my knowledge in almost 40 years.  There is no such think as zoning in this county, and most others in MT.

[RoadKingLarry]

To me, I'd rather live next to a neighbor that was free and lived in a converted school bus than to surrender my liberty to ensure that my neighbor mows his lawn.

Yup.

[Cliffh]

We had the opportunity to purchase a 20 acre wooded lot, with a nice house planted in the middle of the lot.  We passed on it 'cause of the voluntary HOA.

Our last place in AZ was in a new sub-division.  We were the first to move into the area.  Others moved in and started talking about starting an HOA.  Only took a few phone calls/meetings to get that idea squashed.

Out here some of the neighbors live in single wides, others in brick houses.  Some yards are shoulder high weeds, others are well kept.  Everyone does their own thing - and that's how it should be.

To me, I'd rather live next to a neighbor that was free and lived in a converted school bus than to surrender my liberty to ensure that my neighbor mows his lawn.

[41magsnub]

Mine is okay, all they enforce are the rules on the more egregious behaviors:  loud parties after 10PM, cars in front yards, that kind of thing.  Mostly though they just administer the boulevard trees, common area lawns, and the snow removal service for the sidewalks.  I go to the meetings so as to head off any little HOA-nazi wannabe's that want to enforce more rules.

So, that level of HOA is fine.  The potential is always there to get a bunch of busy bodies that want to dictate to everybody else though so on balance I'd rather not have one. 

An example of where the HOA works for me is the house behind me is now a rental and they go through tenants pretty quickly.  Every so often a tenant moves in with more cars than they have parking (there is a 2 car garage, a driveway, and street parking) so they think they can park in the alley.  Unfortunately, my driveway points into the alley and there is not enough room for my truck to make the corner into the driveway without the entire width to work with.  Usually a nice conversation after they move in solves the issue (the HOA and city laws specifically state no parking in the alley).  However, on one occasion a real jackass flew off the handle about it and started intentionally parking his pickup right behind my driveway.  I called the cops to come ticket him, but they are not interested in enforcing this law.  The HOA sent a letter to the property owner and got the guy to stop.

In the next few years I want to get out of this soulless neighborhood and have a little acreage outside of town - just the county rules apply then.

[Perd Hapley]

Just one nit-pick. Freely agreeing to live by certain rules is not giving up liberty. It is using one's liberty to make a free choice.

[Levant]

Mine is okay, all they enforce are the rules on the more egregious behaviors:  loud parties after 10PM, cars in front yards, that kind of thing.  Mostly though they just administer the boulevard trees, common area lawns, and the snow removal service for the sidewalks.  I go to the meetings so as to head off any little HOA-nazi wannabe's that want to enforce more rules.

So, that level of HOA is fine.  The potential is always there to get a bunch of busy bodies that want to dictate to everybody else though so on balance I'd rather not have one.

I owned a house once in Mississippi under an HOA.  They issued a mandate that everyone use only white lights for Christmas.  I bought every colored light I could get my hands on and we had thousands of colored lights.

They have their places, they are not for everyone but they seem to work well most of the time when people want to live in a clean neighborhood in areas where zoning laws are lax.

I can't imagine that I would ever want to be under one but I could see it as reasonable for those who want it in the case of retired folks who just want quiet and no drama.

I live in one town and work in another.  In the town where I work I keep an apartment for those days when I stay over in that town - which is not every night.  There are definitely times I think how nice it is in the apartment.  No chores, nothing to fix, it's a simple life.  With the exception of mowing the lawn - which could be contracted out - a HOA could be the same.  But, in the end, when I'm away from home all I want to do is get home.

That life is just not for me.  I need something more challenging to get through life.  Apartment life or HOA subdivision life reminds me of this - how many of you knew it was written by Carole King?

The local rock group down the street
Is trying hard to learn their song
Seranade the weekend squire, who just came out to mow his lawn

Just one nit-pick. Freely agreeing to live by certain rules is not giving up liberty. It is using one's liberty to make a free choice.

I said that in post 1.  No one is forced into it; you get to choose. 

But what happens when your life situation changes?  When the economy is terrible and you want or need to grow your own food and you have the room?  I know folks who have 5 acre "horse farms".  They are allowed to have a horse or two but no other farm animal. IT may have seemed reasonable with their situation when they moved in.  THen the market collapses, they can't sell their house and they want to raise some chickens or ducks.  On 5 acres they can do it without bothering a neighbor.  So, you're right that they get the choice going in but it's, in my mind, a stupid choice because you may have to live with it for 30 years. 

[Sindawe]

They have their uses.  I live in an HOA governed community.  The HOA concerns itself (for the most part) with keeping the landscaping up, paying the water bills and painting the buildings.  Occasional improvements come along now and again like the fencing put up last year to keep the local High School kids from wandering into the property during the school day to smoke dope (and not share) when they should be in class.

So far the little-tyrants in the community have been kept in check by myself when I was on the board and other like minded owners.  Occasion proposals from the control freaks slip through like the rule about window coverings (no foil or cardboard) several years back.

If I were to buy a detached single family home, no way I would buy into one with an HOA.  My land, my choice of what grows there.  My house, I chose what color to paint, what kind of grotesques to put on the corners and gargoyles to put on the downspouts.

[Cliffh]

The potential is always there to get a bunch of busy bodies that want to dictate to everybody else though so on balance I'd rather not have one. 

And that right there is the (potential) problem.  Too damn many busybodies around.

[AZRedhawk44]

I really frustrated my realtor when I kept passing on houses with the question: "Is it in an HOA?"

My house is 1 year older than me.  No HOA.  If that's the way it's gotta be, then so be it.

I won't put up with an HOA.  If I want to go 2 months without weeding, that's my right.  If I want to paint my house a new color, that's my right.  If I want to put up a 40 foot HAM antenna, that's my right.  If I want to raise chickens or a garden, that's my right.

[zahc]

I currently live in a weak, purely voluntary, $24/year HOA. We have yearly meetings with face painting for the kids, and vote on who will mow the common areas this year. That's a pretty good HOA.

Then again, Richardson TX has been described as "its own HOA". There are many rules (I should say LAWS) about what your house can look like, how your trees must be trimmed and when the garbage goes out. It's never been a source of conflict for me, but if I wanted to paint my house pink, there would be conflict.

If I have to choose between laws and HOAs, for an equal amount of micro-management, I guess I'd have to side with the HOA on principle...I guess HOAs can be avoided by not living in a neighborhood with one, but laws can be avoided by not living there too....can anyone come up with a fundamental difference between HOA and small-scale government? They kind of blend together at a certain point.

[Regolith]

....can anyone come up with a fundamental difference between HOA and small-scale government? They kind of blend together at a certain point.

One is more-or-less voluntary, and the other is more-or-less not. 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Hoa?
The idea of me fitting in one males me giggle



damn phone

[K Frame]

"Is it worth giving up some liberty to keep up the value of your home?"

Giving up liberty?

For *expletive deleted*ck's sake. 

In most areas of the country they have powers that are commeasureate with living in a town with a town council.

They are probably the purest form of limited representative government we have in this country because the ratio of electors to elected is normally miniscule.

The ONLY way you "give up some liberty" is if you become part of the overall problem in that you buy your home and then prove that you have no concept of how to protect your personal liberty by completely disengaging with your community and ignoring what is going on around you while chanting "OH I'M A FREEMAN AND I'M OK..."

[Fitz]

"Is it worth giving up some liberty to keep up the value of your home?"

Giving up liberty?

For *expletive deleted*'s sake. 

In most areas of the country they have powers that are commeasureate with living in a town with a town council.

They are probably the purest form of limited representative government we have in this country because the ratio of electors to elected is normally miniscule.

The ONLY way you "give up some liberty" is if you become part of the overall problem in that you buy your home and then prove that you have no concept of how to protect your personal liberty by completely disengaging with your community and ignoring what is going on around you while chanting "OH I'M A FREEMAN AND I'M OK..."

This


Not to mention, one does not have to move into a neighborhood with an HOA.

"What if my life circumstances change?"


Then move. Personal responsibility. If you no longer can abide by the terms of the HOA you voluntarily moved into, then sell your house and move out.




As for my HOA, I'd prefer not to live in one, but I made the decision to move into mine because I liked the house, the rules are easy, and the common pool and fishing ponds are nice. The HOA has helped out with some particularly troublesome neighbors who liked to let their trash pile up, attracting animals.

[RevDisk]

Meh. I've seen good HOAs and bad HOAs. Just depends who is running them, how they are run, and what their rules are like. Most folks that complain about HOAs tend not to be involved, and then wonder why their opinion isn't considered.

[Fitz]

Meh. I've seen good HOAs and bad HOAs. Just depends who is running them, how they are run, and what their rules are like. Most folks that complain about HOAs tend not to be involved, and then wonder why their opinion isn't considered.

Yep. I have a neighbor who bitches about the HOA all the time and how she doesn't like <insert pet cause of the week here>

She hasn't been to a single meeting or raised a motion to change any of it.

[HankB]

I specifically bought my house in a location with NO HOA. There are some local city laws and regulations that govern things like fences, vegetation and paint color, but they're pretty relaxed and AFAIK have never been a problem for me or anyone I know. (A purple house with green zebra stripes might become an issue.) LIkewise, it's a residential suburb with the typical lot being 90 x 150, so running a puppy mill with 50 dogs on premesis or raising horses isn't going to be in compliance.

SOME HOAs locally are problematic and essentially run by the builders as profit centers - when moving, it's good to do your homework and find out what the deal is if there's an HOA involved.

[Kingcreek]

I can't imagine me in a HOA! When the deer are hanging from the tree or front end loader or when I shoot the garden raiding groundhog, things would probably get ugly.
My mother lives in one run by nazis and my inlaws live in one and they are the nazis running it. My mother wanted to paint her front door blue but was told white was the only allowed color for trim windows or doors.
I live on a one lane road with one neighbor 1/2 mile away. He's a good guy that drives truck and I see his dog more than I see him. I can run my log splitter with no muffler or shoot rabbits from my front porch in my underwear and nobody knows or cares.
I am Homeowner, you can Associate with me or not. That's how I like it.

[MechAg94]

No doubt that a home with some land where you can't see your neighbors is ideal.  However, if work or your situation doesn't allow you to live in that ideal, an HOA can help keep a neighborhood neat.

To me, they are fine in moderation, but you need to participate.

[K Frame]

"My mother lives in one run by nazis and my inlaws live in one and they are the nazis running it."

So, your Mother is a Jew in danger of imminent extermination in the HOA's gymnasium "shower room?"

It becomes really, really tiresome the way people toss around the term nazi...

Nazis are running my school district! Nazis here! Nazis there! You're a nazi! She's a nazi! Everyone's a nazi!

I've been lucky enough to know a number of people over the years, friends of my parents, who had the unique pleasure of being guests of Hitler's SS, or who had brief, but memorable, encounters with those bands of merry men who formed the Einsatzgruppen, dyed in the wool true believers in the superiority of the Aryan race and who weren't above doing a little "cleaning up around town."

If you had even the slightest knowledge of what the Nazis were really like, idiotic utterances such as "My mother lives in one run by nazis..." wouldn't even pass your *expletive deleted* lips.

[Jamisjockey]

I happily live in an HOA.  Of course, the lots average .20 in size.  I don't get the idea of having property measured in acreage and an HOA.  Doesn't make sense to me.
The appeal in an HOA is when you're in an actual subdivision.  I could spit on my neighbors houses. 
A move to acreage and no, I don't want an HOA.

Granted, no one has to buy into a homeowners association so they always get to choose, but once in, what if your priorities change?  What if you change into a hippy and want to have solar power and raise chickens?  What if you turn into a conservative libertarian and want to have solar power and raise chickens?

Then *expletive deleted*ing move.  It's not that hard. It is a somewhat free country still. 

[Brad Johnson]

It comes down to your basic IF/THEN statement...

IF:  You like rigid property appearance rules; the ability for other homeowners to impose their wishes on you in the form of assessments; and can live with (or even like and promote) the community guidelines
THEN:  An HOA is for you

IF:  You value the ability to have leeway within certain basic boundaries with regards to property appearance, type, style, level of care; you have a problem with nosy neighbors who have the authority to tell you what to do with your house above and beyond that of the local constabulary and taxing entity; or you just basically have an issue with other people telling you how to live
THEN:  HOA's are the devil's own personal country club

Choose wisely.

Brad