Thoughts on .300 Win Mag vs 7mm Rem Mag?

[Balog]

For general purpose hunting (elk/moose/bear/longer range deer etc) as well as long range shooting, which would you go with and why? .300 is more versatile in terms of projectile weight and has more common brass, 7mm is generally regarded as lighter kicking. Thoughts?

[MechAg94]

Lighter kicking means a great deal to me unless you have a good muzzle break. 

I assume since you mention these calibers that you aren't talking about 100 yard shooting. 

[charby]

Both of them have recoil greater than a .30-06. Neither is for an inexperienced medium bore rifle shooter.

I shoot a 7.5# Model 70 in .300 WM. SomBitch kicks like a mule but I killed a pronghorn with it at 429 yards and 317 yards.

I like the 300wm because of the heavier bullet options over the 7mm. I currently shoot 165g Hornady sst at 3100 fps, but I'm probably going to change to 180g Barnes TSX BT because I'll start drawing elk tags as soon as next fall.

If I had to do it all over again, I'd still take the 300 over the 7mm just because of the versatileness of the .308 bullet.

[AZRedhawk44]

Define "long range."

If you really want to get into long range shooting, meaning out to 1500 yards or so, 7mmRM when loaded with VLD projectiles, has damned near identical velocity and BC to .338 Lapua offerings.  Very cost effective training platform to learn to shoot 4-digit distances prior to buying a tacktikul snyper or hard target interdiction rifle.  I've heard that Secret Service uses 7mmRM for overwatch.

500 yards, it won't matter much.

As a hunting gun, I'd rather have the mass and frontal surface area available in the projectile that the .30 caliber offers.

[charby]

Also moose and bear are not normally shot at long ranges.

Moose due to the thick habitat they live in, and black bears for much of the same reason. Nothing says you can't spot and stalk and shoot one in a clearing on the other ridge.

I'm going to assume you aren't hunting grizz since there is no open season in the lower 48. Grizz is sometimes shot from longer distances in open river bottoms in Alaska.

[HankB]

Assuming you're using appropriate loads, I doubt that any animal you hunt will be able to tell the difference between being hit by a .300 Win Mag or a 7mm Rem mag . . .

Or, for that matter, a .30/06. All are fine cartridges and suitable for the game you mention.

The 7 shoots a little faster and flatter than an '06, but with a smaller bullet - and the heaviest commonly available slug is 175 grains.

The .300 is like shooting a .30/06 from around 150 yards (give or take) closer to your target; same bullets, roughly 7 - 10% more velocity. Bullet weights up to 220 grains are commonly available.

If the .300 and 7mm were my choices, I'd go with the .300 for its versatility and the availability of both heavier hunting bullets and greater variety of match bullets.

[Brad Johnson]

Neither.

...7mm is generally regarded as lighter kicking. Thoughts?

Yeah, kinda like Sugar Ray Leonard punches a little lighter than Mike Tyson.  It really doesn't matter because it's going to hurt like hell either way.  

On the serious side, .300 and 7mm Mag are great calibers and you won't go wrong with either.  Just understand that both are bruisers.  A little on the stiff side for a GP gun, IMO, and cartridges are expensive compared to something more mundane like a .308 or .30-06.  For a GP rifle I personally don't think you get enough additional performance out of a 300 mag versus a hot .30-06 to justify the added expense or sore shoulder.  Until you start stepping out way past most hunting distances, or need an absolutely reliable one-shot kill for critters who might just turn around and eat you if only wounded, I'd recommend getting something that whacks you a little less and is a lot cheaper to feed.

As has been mentioned, under 500 yards the ballistic differences are negligible in the real world.  When you have two cartridges so closely matched, playing with bullet weights and powder charges can make more difference than any inherent property of the caliber.

Brad

[Gewehr98]

Why the affliction of Magnumitis?

[AZRedhawk44]

Why the affliction of Magnumitis?

^^ This also, if I may contribute to APS thread veer.

My inclination, if I ever get to hunt anything larger than Arizona elk, is to go to a larger diameter projectile if presented with moose/buffalo/griz or big african game.  I've heard that stepping up to .270-.300 caliber magnums results in a lot of bloodshot meat and shattered bone.  The larger diameter, slower moving, flat meplat bullets yield a cleaner kill and less temporary wound cavity. 

Hunting a big critter, I'd rather have a .338-06 than a 7mmRM.  Frankly, I'd much rather have a .45/70, .450 marlin or comparable cartridge, but in conventional bolt action bottlenecks, I'd still go bigger and slower for hunting.

[charby]

^^ This also, if I may contribute to APS thread veer.

My inclination, if I ever get to hunt anything larger than Arizona elk, is to go to a larger diameter projectile if presented with moose/buffalo/griz or big african game.  I've heard that stepping up to .270-.300 caliber magnums results in a lot of bloodshot meat and shattered bone.  The larger diameter, slower moving, flat meplat bullets yield a cleaner kill and less temporary wound cavity. 

Hunting a big critter, I'd rather have a .338-06 than a 7mmRM.  Frankly, I'd much rather have a .45/70, .450 marlin or comparable cartridge, but in conventional bolt action bottlenecks, I'd still go bigger and slower for hunting.

I've never had a problem with bloodshot meat with my 300wm. Shooting deer with 12 gauge slugs (slow heavy bullet) has inflicted more ruined meat then shooting them with a high power.

I also want to break bones, it sucks having to track poorly shot animal, really heart breaking when you shoot a Booner deer in the shoulder and doesn't break bone and the animal walks off and enters a wildlife refuge. Piss poor bullet choice on my part with my MZL, it still bothers me to think about it.

[HankB]

. . . My inclination, if I ever get to hunt anything larger than Arizona elk, is to go to a larger diameter projectile if presented with moose/buffalo/griz or big african game . . .

IMHO, the .30/06 is a good choice for all non-dangerous, thin-skinned game worldwide with the possible exceptions of eland and giraffe. Aside from deer I've used mine with excellent results on warthog, Kafue lechwe, impala, kudu, zebra, wildebeest, gemsbok, and leopard, at ranges up to 400+ yards. For larger game, I'd go to a larger cartridge; in my case, I skipped over the .338s and went right to .375 H&H.

I've never had a problem with bloodshot meat with my 300wm. Shooting deer with 12 gauge slugs (slow heavy bullet) has inflicted more ruined meat then shooting them with a high power.

The .300 WM doesn't gain all that much velocity over a .30/06. A 300 yard shot with a .300 will hit roughly like a 150 yard shot from a .30/06; doubt a deer will tell the difference, and I wouldn't expect huge amounts of bloodshot meat.

[charby]

 The .300 WM doesn't gain all that much velocity over a .30/06. A 300 yard shot with a .300 will hit roughly like a 150 yard shot from a .30/06; doubt a deer will tell the difference, and I wouldn't expect huge amounts of bloodshot meat.

400-500fps is not a lot?

[Balog]

Why the affliction of Magnumitis?

Seems like fun, and there are lots of them available pretty cheaply at the moment in my local area? I have no real need for one, but if I can rtade into it or get it for a bargain why not?

[BobR]

My thoughts, and possibly just mine.

If just for hunting, which is only a few shots a year, get whatever will be most affordable, both in gun and ammo. If you can find one for sale already scoped, so much the better.

If you plan on doing a lot of target/recreational shooting, I would go for the one with most affordable and available ammo, in case you don't want to reload. If you get serious, and start doing matches, and want to reload, I would go with the one with the largest selection of bullets to try.

I have nothing against either one of those rounds, but I was able to pick up a 308 Norma Mag for a song, so I am turning that into a long range shooter. My biggest issue right now is getting the brass. I have resisted turning the 338 Win Mag into brass for it, but if my order doesn't come through soon, I may have to do that.

bob

[charby]

Seems like fun, and there are lots of them available pretty cheaply at the moment in my local area? I have no real need for one, but if I can rtade into it or get it for a bargain why not?

Go ahead shoot one from the bench 20 or 30 times in a row, you may change your mind on magnum high power.

I'm actually thinking about a model 70 in 270 win for off season practicing and only using the 300 for hunting.

[Ben]

Recoil on my 7MM doesn't bother me, but I'm not all that recoil sensitive in general. I took a long range rifle class with it a few years ago where I threw over 300 rounds downrange and was fine at the end of the day. I've had the opportunity to shoot both a .300 and .338 Win. Only a few rounds through each, but surprisingly to me, the .338 had less felt recoil, or at least not as sharp.

All that said, my .308 is my favorite hunting rifle. :)

[HankB]

400-500fps is not a lot?

HOW much? Let's see what the manufacturers claim:

Winchester .30/06 180 grain Ballistic Silvertip: 2750 ft/sec
Winchester 300 Win Mag 180 grain Ballistic Silvertip: 2950 ft/sec
That's the normal spread, about 200 ft/sec.

Looking at higher performance ammo:

Hornady .30.06 180 grain SST Superformance: 2820 ft/sec
Hornady .300 Win Mag 180 grain SST Superformance: 3130 ft/sec
That's a bit more spread, 310 ft/sec.

Handloads? The highest velocity Hodgdon lists for a 180 in the .30/06 is 2840 ft/sec; for the .300 WinMag, it's 3042, 202 ft/sec. edge to the Mag.

I'm not seeing a spread of 400-500 ft/sec with a serious bullet weight.

[Balog]

Go ahead shoot one from the bench 20 or 30 times in a row, you may change your mind on magnum high power.

I'm actually thinking about a model 70 in 270 win for off season practicing and only using the 300 for hunting.

I don't really like shooting off a bench. Field positions usually seem less of an issue with recoil.

[charby]

HOW much? Let's see what the manufacturers claim:

Winchester .30/06 180 grain Ballistic Silvertip: 2750 ft/sec
Winchester 300 Win Mag 180 grain Ballistic Silvertip: 2950 ft/sec
That's the normal spread, about 200 ft/sec.

Looking at higher performance ammo:

Hornady .30.06 180 grain SST Superformance: 2820 ft/sec
Hornady .300 Win Mag 180 grain SST Superformance: 3130 ft/sec
That's a bit more spread, 310 ft/sec.

Handloads? The highest velocity Hodgdon lists for a 180 in the .30/06 is 2840 ft/sec; for the .300 WinMag, it's 3042, 202 ft/sec. edge to the Mag.

I'm not seeing a spread of 400-500 ft/sec with a serious bullet weight.

I get ~3120 with a 180g bullet. My Hodgdon book shows 2600-2800 for 180 in 30-06. So that is 300-400.

If I max out the 165g I can get ~3300 fps out of my rifle, My Hodgdon book shows 2650-2950 for the 165g loads. There is your 400-500+fps.

[Gewehr98]

I'd suggest working up decent loads with that .270 of yours, and learning what its capabilities are, before going the magnum route.

[charby]

I don't really like shooting off a bench. Field positions usually seem less of an issue with recoil.

Bench is the best way to zero a scope and see the accuracy of the load. Once I get zeroed I'm shooting how I would be when hunting, with a bipod, with sticks, off a backpack, against a tree, etc.

[RoadKingLarry]

Whippersnappers and their fancy new fangled smokeless powder magnums

[charby]

Whippersnappers and their fancy new fangled smokeless powder magnums

Who are you calling a whippersnapper? I hunt with a muzzleloader for much of the Iowa deer seasons. You and your self contained cartridges. :)

[AZRedhawk44]

I don't really like shooting off a bench. Field positions usually seem less of an issue with recoil.

I knew I liked you for some reason or other.

[Balog]

So I start a what gun to buy thread and ya'll tell me not to? I don't know what the internet is coming to...   

And ftr, working on the .270 and playing with a loudenboomer are not mutually exclusive. This is a whim and I'm in no hurry though.