Israel in America

[Iain]

No. Went to the most Christian university college in the UK though, so I spent a lot of time around some quite Christian folk, several of whom I count amongst my closest friends. My parents attend church, and my uncle is an Archdeacon in the Church of England, his wife is very pro-Israel. Best friend is a full on pro-Israel Christian, so that is the view point I hear frequently.

When I write 'pro-Israel' I'm just using the least loaded term I can think of.

I dropped out of the 'fold' in my later teens. In retrospect, probably not for the best reasons, but that's a whole other thread.

[Art Eatman]

FWIW:

The global Islamic population is approximately 1,200,000,, or 20% of the world population...

They have received the following Nobel Prizes:

Literature:
1988 - Najib Mahfooz.

Peace:
1978 - Mohamed Anwar El-Sadat
1994 - Yaser Arafat

Physics:
1990 - Elias James Corey
1999 - Ahmed Zewail

Medicine:
1960 - Peter Brian Medawar
1998 - Ferid Mourad


The global Jewish population is approximately 14,000,, or about 00.02% of the world population...

They have received the following Nobel Prizes:

Literature:
1910 - Paul Heyse
1927 - Henri Bergson
1958 - Boris Pasternak
1966 - Shmuel Yosef Agnon
1966 - Nelly Sachs
1976 - Saul Bellow
1978 - Isaac Bashevis Singer
1981 - Elias Canetti
1987 - Joseph Brodsky
1991 - Nadine Gordimer World

Peace:
1911 - Alfred Fried
1911 - Tobias Michael Carel Asser
1968 - Rene Cassin
1973 - Henry Kissinger
1978 - Menachem Begin
1986 - Elie Wiesel
1994 - Shimon Peres
1994 - Yitzhak Rabin

Physics:
1905 - Adolph Von Baeyer
1906 - Henri Moissan
1907 - Albert Abraham Michelson
1908 - Gabriel Lippmann
1910 - Otto Wallach
1915 - Richard Willstaetter
1918 - Fritz Haber
1921 - Albert Einstein
1922 - Niels Bohr
1925 - James Franck
1925 - Gustav Hertz
1943 - Gustav Stern
1943 - George Charles de Hevesy
1944 - Isidor Issac Rabi
1952 - Felix Bloch
1954 - Max Born
1958 - Igor Tamm
1959 - Emilio Segre
1960 - Donald A. Glaser
1961 - Robert Hofstadter
1961 - Melvin Calvin
1962 - Lev Davidovich Landau
1962 - Max Ferdinand Perutz
1965 - Richard Phillips Feynman
1965 - Julian Schwinger
1969 - Murray Gell-Mann
1971 - Dennis Gabor
1972 - William Howard Stein
1973 - Brian David Josephson
1975 - Benjamin Mottleson
1976 - Burton Richter
1977 - Ilya Prigogine
1978 - Arno Allan Penzias
1978 - Peter L Kapitza
1979 - Stephen Weinberg
1979 - Sheldon Glashow
1979 - Herbert Charle s Brown
1980 - Paul Berg
1980 - Walter Gilbert
1981 - Roald Hoffmann
1982 - Aaron Klug
1985 - Albert A. Hauptman
1985 - Jerome Karle
1986 - Dudley R. Herschbach
1988 - Robert Huber
1988 - Leon Lederman
1988 - Melvin Schwartz
1988 - Jack Steinberger
1989 - Sidney Altman
1990 - Jerome Friedman
1992 - Rudolph Marcus
1995 - Martin Perl
2000 - Alan J. Heeger

Economics:
1970 - Paul Anthony Samuelson
1971 - Simon Kuznets
1972 - Kenneth Joseph Arrow
1975 - Leonid Kantorovich
1976 - Milton Friedman
1978 - Herbert A. Simon
1980 - Lawrence Robert Klein
1985 - Franco Modigliani
1987 - Robert M. Solow
1990 - Harry Markowitz
1990 - Merton Miller
1992 - Gary Becker
1993 - Robert Fogel

Medicine:
1908 - Elie Metchnikoff
1908 - Paul Erlich
1914 - Robert Barany
1922 - Otto Meyerhof
1930 - Karl Landsteiner
1931 - Otto Warburg
1936 - Otto Loewi
1944 - Joseph Erlanger
1944 - Herbert Spencer Gasser
1945 - Ernst Boris Chain
1946 - Hermann Joseph Muller
1950 - Tadeus Reichstein
1952 - Selman Abra ham Waksman
1953 - Hans Krebs
1953 - Fritz Albert Lipmann
1958 - Joshua Lederberg
1959 - Art hur Ko rnberg
1964 - Konrad Bloch
1965 - Francois Jacob
1965 - Andre Lwoff
1967 - George Wald
1968 - Marshall W. Nirenberg
1969 - Salvador Luria
1970 - Julius Axelrod
1970 - Sir Bernard Katz
1972 - Gerald Maurice Edelman
1975 - Howard Martin Temin
1976 - Baruch S. Blumberg
1977 - Roselyn Sussman Yalow
1978 - Daniel Nathans
1980 - Baruj Benacerraf
1984 - Cesar Milstein
1985 - Michael Stuart Brown
1985 - Joseph L. Goldstein
1986 - Stanley Cohen (& Rita Levi-Montalcini)
1988 - Gertrude Elion
1989 - Harold Varmus
1991 - Erwin Neher
1991 - Bert Sakmann
1993 - Richard J. Roberts
1993 - Phillip Sharp
1994 - Alfred Gilman
1995 - Edward B. Lewis

The Jews are not demonstrating with their dead on the streets, yelling and chanting and asking for revenge.

The Jews are not promoting brain washing their children in military training camps.

The Jews are not teaching their children how to blow themselves up and cause maximum deaths of Jews and other non Muslims.

The Jews don't hijack planes, nor kill athletes at the Olympics.

The Jews don't traffic slaves, nor have leaders calling for Jihad and death to all the Infidels.

The Jews don't have the economic strength of petroleum, nor the possibilities to force the world's media to see "their side" of the question.

Perhaps the world's Muslims should consider investing more in standard education and less in blaming the Jews for all their problems.

Author Unknown

[MicroBalrog]

PS:  Micro, don't I remember that you live in Israel and actually served in the JDF?

Yes, you're correct.

However, my larger point is that 'Israel in America' would never have happened, because of the incompatibility of the Zionist ideology as seen by the Jews at the time with what America is all about.

[Perd Hapley]

I don't doubt it MicroB.  Still, I am interested in asking whether immigration to America would have been a better idea, not whether it was likely.

[The Rabbi]

I don't doubt it MicroB.  Still, I am interested in asking whether immigration to America would have been a better idea, not whether it was likely.

To ask that question is to fail to understand the attachment to the Land of Israel that Jews have.  There are many commandments that can only be done in the Land.

[Perd Hapley]

I don't doubt it MicroB.  Still, I am interested in asking whether immigration to America would have been a better idea, not whether it was likely.

To ask that question is to fail to understand the attachment to the Land of Israel that Jews have.

I figured on that response, but the "strong attachment" seems belied by the nearly 19 centuries that elapsed between the fall of the Temple and the establishment of modern Israel.  But maybe I expect too much from the scattered Jewish communities of the world.  

There are many commandments that can only be done in the Land.

I thought that was the case, but this makes it hard for me to understand why the Muslims still occupy the temple mount.  Yeah, yeah, I know.  There would be a big war.  But there already IS a big war.  In the words of that famous son of Moses, Jerry Seinfeld:  Like a band-aid; one motion; right off!

I'm probably getting pretty simplistic and naive, though, aren't I?  Does the answer to my second line of questioning involve a conflict between the fundies and the afore-mentioned, radical-left, commies in Israel?

[Art Eatman]

I don't pretend to be all that knowlegeable on some facets of things Israeli or Islamic, but I have read that the Muslim attachment to the Temple Mount is a fairly recent thing, accentuated by the propaganda against Israel that's been so prevalent since the early days.  It was of much less importance until the 1950s.

Art

[The Rabbi]

I don't doubt it MicroB.  Still, I am interested in asking whether immigration to America would have been a better idea, not whether it was likely.

To ask that question is to fail to understand the attachment to the Land of Israel that Jews have.

I figured on that response, but the "strong attachment" seems belied by the nearly 19 centuries that elapsed between the fall of the Temple and the establishment of modern Israel.  But maybe I expect too much from the scattered Jewish communities of the world.

We pray several times a day, every day, for the return to Israel, the rebuilding of Jerusalem, and the rebuilding of the Temple.  We commemorate its destruction every year with a long difficult fast.  We commemorate other incidents leading to the destruction and exile with other shorter fasts.  Virtually every Jewish holiday mentions either the promise of the land or the exile from it somewhere in the liturgy.  All the narrative portions of the Tanach deal with the story of the creation of the world and its culmination when the Jewish people crossed over the Jordan and when King Solomon finally built the Temple in Jerusalem.  The Land of Israel is as central to the Jewish faith as anything else.
The scattered Jewish communities were that way due to wars and exiles, not by choice.  And people began braving tremendous odds to move back, when that became possible in the 19th century.

There are many commandments that can only be done in the Land.

I thought that was the case, but this makes it hard for me to understand why the Muslims still occupy the temple mount.  Yeah, yeah, I know.  There would be a big war.  But there already IS a big war.  In the words of that famous son of Moses, Jerry Seinfeld:  Like a band-aid; one motion; right off!

I'm probably getting pretty simplistic and naive, though, aren't I?  Does the answer to my second line of questioning involve a conflict between the fundies and the afore-mentioned, radical-left, commies in Israel?

Our tradition tells us that 1) Jews may not go up to the Temple mount presently, 2) The Temple will be rebuilt in the times of Messiah, 3) "Choose life" which here means not to antagonize Muslims unnecessarily.  There would be no point today of destroying the mosques since at present we have no use for the site.

[Perd Hapley]

The scattered Jewish communities were that way due to wars and exiles, not by choice.  And people began braving tremendous odds to move back, when that became possible in the 19th century.

Well, that I figured, but it's hard to believe it was the only real shot y'all had in nearly two millenia.  I guess the pagan Romans were the obstacle at first, then the Christians (Roman and otherwise), then the Muslims later on?  Did the Eastern Church ever control "the Land"?  Then there's the matter of the many sincere Jews still not living in Israel.  If Israel is so important, what are you still doing here?  Waiting for things to settle down, or is it a matter of too much socialist nonsense, or is the move expensive?

Speaking of socialism, isn't there something ironic about a group reputed to be such shrewd businessmen electing to live under such crippling levels of socialism?

Our tradition tells us that 1) Jews may not go up to the Temple mount presently, 2) The Temple will be rebuilt in the times of Messiah, 3) "Choose life" which here means not to antagonize Muslims unnecessarily.  There would be no point today of destroying the mosques since at present we have no use for the site.

Now THAT I didn't know.  Vely intelesting.