Bears in the woods

[MillCreek]

http://www.backpacker.com/february-march-2013the-truth-about-bears-the-skills/survival/17302

From the article:

Put your trust in bear spray. The efficacy of spray vs. guns was the subject of my most recent paper [published last year in the The Journal of Wildlife Management]. Out of 133 encounters involving bear spray, only three people suffered injuries, which were all minor. But I found 269 incidences of gun defenses—with 17 dead people and hundreds of dead bears.

If you shoot a grizzly in the Lower 48, you’re moron of the year. Most states require you to hike out the carcass, and in some cases you’ll have to pay fines [for shooting an endangered species]. Those problems go away with bear spray. Plus, you can use bear spray with impunity—and with positive benefits for bear and human alike. A bear spritzed with pepper spray gets a good spanking—“Hey! These creatures are like skunks. Screw it, I’m outta here!”—and you’re positively conditioning it to associate that lesson with future hikers.

[Perd Hapley]

[scratches head] Hundreds of dead bears, eh? Sounds like these gun things usually work.

[Ben]

Are gun defenses hikers only? Hunters more often than not walk off, rather than on trails, and try to be quiet. Also, if hunters are dressing a fresh kill or something, they are more likely to be unaware of a hungry bear, and if aware at the last second, are going to reach for the gun they already have with them. They may not get it in position to even get a shot off. Does the research count only those gun encounters where shots were fired, or all encounters where a gun was present?

[RoadKingLarry]

Out of 133 encounters involving bear spray, only three people suffered injuries, which were all minor

That they know of...

[TommyGunn]

Wasn't there a joke about bear spray that wound up that Grizzly Bear scat is identified by a strong pepper spray odor and the presence of bells or something?

Are gun defenses hikers only? Hunters more often than not walk off, rather than on trails, and try to be quiet. Also, if hunters are dressing a fresh kill or something, they are more likely to be unaware of a hungry bear, and if aware at the last second, are going to reach for the gun they already have with them. They may not get it in position to even get a shot off. Does the research count only those gun encounters where shots were fired, or all encounters where a gun was present?

Yeah .... I would like more information!   

[bedlamite]

Wasn't there a joke about bear spray that wound up that Grizzly Bear scat is identified by a strong pepper spray odor and the presence of bells or something?
Yeah .... I would like more information!   

[Jamisjockey]

Causation vs correlation and all that.

[Sergeant Bob]

Also from the article:

Despite what some people say, I’m not just pimping the [bear spray] industry. Those guys hate me. At one point, I showed that bear spray could actually attract bears. I just demonstrated that if you’re stupid enough to spray it around a tent, you just said, “Eat at Joe’s.” Not a lot of people were doing that, but there were enough that it had to stop. The media distorted it, and I was in a number of TV and radio spots where people said, “Bear spray doesn’t work.” But the correct human analogy for the ways bear react to bear spray is this: I like a milkshake, but I don’t want it sprayed up my nose. ]

I guess you better be a good shot with the spray or you're farked.

[tokugawa]

Put your trust in bear spray, and back it up with lead spray. They can talk all they want, but all the pro guides I ever saw in AK had a heavy rifle or 12ga slug gun with them.

[Tallpine]

I've never heard of any legal issues in Montana from shooting a bear in valid self defense.  Quite the opposite, actually.

I wonder how many bear sprayings there are that were not truly self defensive...?   

[Matthew Carberry]

Also from the article:

I guess you better be a good shot with the spray or you're farked.

The attractant factor occurs when people spray it on gear as a passive deterrent.  That gives the bears the ability to rub their faces on it and use it like we use hot sauce, just enough to trigger endorphin release via pain on our own terms.

The milkshake analogy is not inapt.

In Alaska in a DLP shooting you have to surrender the hide and skull (including all teeth and claws) to the state. You can have someone else do the work. The "trophies" get auctioned off at the Fur Rondy, so you can buy your kill back if you want.

My position is spray is good, no chance of killing a curious or bluff charging bear (there's no evidence it provokes attacks in those cases) but a bear that wants to beat you or eat you will ignore it, as it is just an irritant. You can't shoot that bear off you with spray, that's why you want both options.

[Tallpine]

My position is spray is good, no chance of killing a curious or bluff charging bear (there's no evidence it provokes attacks in those cases) but a bear that wants to beat you or eat you will ignore it, as it is just an irritant. You can't shoot that bear off you with spray, that's why you want both options.

So if it is very difficult to stop a charging bear with a gun, how much more so after you have tried pepper spray first and it didn't work 

Back when I roamed in Alaska, bear spray hadn't even been heard of.

[Perd Hapley]

Back when I roamed in Alaska, bear spray hadn't even been heard of.

It's a wonder anyone survived.

[drewtam]

The problem with using both, is that the spray is short distance. If you wait to spray 'em, they've already gotten panic close. At which point it will be difficult to immediate switch to firearm and continue with lead.

So its either shoot 'em at a distance when they are maybe non-threatening, or take the chance and wait to spray 'em at a stone's throw if they edge closer.

[Matthew Carberry]

So if it is very difficult to stop a charging bear with a gun, how much more so after you have tried pepper spray first and it didn't work 

Back when I roamed in Alaska, bear spray hadn't even been heard of.

Said -have- both, not try to -use- both in every circumstance. Ideally you'd operate with the person you're with, like the cops do when they have justification to use lethal force but try less-lethal first.

Judgment call, just like when your choice is shoot or don't; by the time you are really justified to make that call the chance of it working is dicey anyway.

[lee n. field]

The attractant factor occurs when people spray it on gear as a passive deterrent.  That gives the bears the ability to rub their faces on it and use it like we use hot sauce, just enough to trigger endorphin release via pain on our own terms.

Hiker "comes with its own spray on spice packet".

[Pharmacology]

The solution:

Rail mounted bear spay

sent from my mobile potato using crapatalk

[bedlamite]

Or this:

http://www.hi-vel.com/Catalog__25/Specialized_Shotshell_Ammuniti/specialized_shotshell_ammuniti.html

12 GAUGE PEPPER GAS
THIS CARTRIDGE PRODUCES A CONE SHAPED BLAST OF OC POWDER APPROXIMATELY 8 FEET IN DIAMETER AT 25 FEET.  THIS CARTRIDGE USES THE SAME POWDER AS THE ISRAELI RIOT CONTROL GRENADES.  IDEALLY SUITED FOR USE IN THE HV-5 ALARM SYSTEM DESCRIBED IN THIS CATALOG OR IN ANY SHOTGUN.  RECOMMENDED FOR OUTDOOR USE AS THE POWDER CAN BECOME IMBEDDED IN CARPET AND FURNITURE.  ITS PRACTICAL USE WOULD BE FOR RIOT CONTROL WHERE LESS THAN LETHAL FORCE IS NECESSARY.  OVERALL CARTRIDGE LENGTH IS 2-3/4".
HV-0617                                                     $15.95/PKG OF 3
 

[lee n. field]

Or this:

http://www.hi-vel.com/Catalog__25/Specialized_Shotshell_Ammuniti/specialized_shotshell_ammuniti.html

Lots of fun sounding stuff on that page.

[Jim147]

Back when I roamed in Alaska, bear spray hadn't even been heard of.

So what was it like when the Russians owned it?










 


jim

[RoadKingLarry]

Back when I roamed in Alaska, bear spray hadn't even been heard of.

Back then wasn't "bear spray"  what happened when the bear ate too many hippies and got the squirts?

Said -have- both, not try to -use- both in every circumstance. Ideally you'd operate with the person you're with, like the cops do when they have justification to use lethal force but try less-lethal first.

Judgment call, just like when your choice is shoot or don't; by the time you are really justified to make that call the chance of it working is dicey anyway.

Heck if you got someone with you all you gaoota do is kneecap the guy you're with before he kneecaps you and then run off to a safe distance and let the bear have him while you video it on your phone.

[230RN]

Shotshell variants from the site cited by bedlamite...

http://www.hi-vel.com/Catalog__25/Specialized_Shotshell_Ammuniti/specialized_shotshell_ammuniti.html


"12 GAUGE MAIDEN'S REVENGE"

Funnnny.

[Sergeant Bob]

Heck if you got someone with you all you gaoota do is kneecap the guy you're with before he kneecaps you and then run off to a safe distance and let the bear have him while you video it on your phone.

Hey, it worked for Shane when he kneecapped Otis!

[Tallpine]

Said -have- both, not try to -use- both in every circumstance. Ideally you'd operate with the person you're with, like the cops do when they have justification to use lethal force but try less-lethal first.

Judgment call, just like when your choice is shoot or don't; by the time you are really justified to make that call the chance of it working is dicey anyway.

I actually never saw a grizzly during my two year sojourn.  But one time three of us were hiking down off of a pass, and going through that thick brush between tundra and timber we were following dinner plate size bear tracks in the soft trail.  You couldn't see ten feet in front of you and less to the sides in most of that stretch.  I was the "gun guy" of the trio, so I got to take point with the shotgun.  Being safety concious, I kept the chamber empty and figured I could rack the slide.

Looking back, I was an idiot    I should have had one in the pipe and the safety off with my finger outside the trigger guard.  That's the only way that I would have had even a chance of getting a shot off at a bear in that thicket.   

[Perd Hapley]

I actually never saw a grizzly during my two year sojourn.  But one time three of us were hiking down off of a pass, and going through that thick brush between tundra and timber we were following dinner plate size bear tracks in the soft trail.  You couldn't see ten feet in front of you and less to the sides in most of that stretch.  I was the "gun guy" of the trio, so I got to take point with the shotgun.  Being safety concious, I kept the chamber empty and figured I could rack the slide.

Looking back, I was an idiot    I should have had one in the pipe and the safety off with my finger outside the trigger guard.  That's the only way that I would have had even a chance of getting a shot off at a bear in that thicket.   

Just rack the slide. It will scare the grizzlies away!