Author Topic: Backup a Vista harddrive  (Read 1809 times)

Cliffh

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Backup a Vista harddrive
« on: December 16, 2013, 11:11:51 PM »
Our AOL account comes with a great repair service - they'll repair the hardware on any of our computers once a year.  They repaired DW's laptop last year; they sent a prepaid box, repaired it and sent it back free of any charges.  

The problem is that they restored the drive to the original factory settings.  Having only a dial-up connection, downloading all the updates is painful.  We'd tried using XP's backup program to do a full system backup to a flash drive and restoring when it came back, the results were less than satisfactory.  The system isn't stable, it'll lockup or crash randomly; I'm sure the problem is software, not hardware.

I'd like to send my laptop in to have a couple of repairs made.  I'd like to make a reliable, restore-able backup so I don't have to reconfigure/reinstall/re-update everything.  

Any good free/cheap backup solutions?  I used to use Ghost back in the days of win95/98/ME, but I'm sure my copy won't work with Vista Home Basic.  And it has to work from a flash drive, my DVD drive is one of the things needing repair.

ETA: coding
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 11:18:12 PM by Cliffh »

Phantom Warrior

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Re: Backup a Vista harddrive
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2013, 12:01:42 AM »
Why not just take it to a place with high speed Internet (friend, school, work) and leave for a few hours?  Though a clean baseline image you can easily revert to is a worthy goal...

Cliffh

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Re: Backup a Vista harddrive
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2013, 12:13:50 AM »
I've spent a lot of hours tweaking this system; it's just how I want it and it's pretty stable.  Saving the man-hours is my goal, there are too many things making claims on my time now-a-days.

Cliffh

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Re: Backup a Vista harddrive
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2013, 12:16:33 AM »
I would consider using an external drive other than a flash drive.  I've got about 55GB stored on this drive.

BryanP

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Re: Backup a Vista harddrive
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2013, 10:10:14 AM »
If you have an external hard drive available, the free-for-personal-use version of Macrium Reflect works very well.  Save an image of your drive (twice if you're paranoid).  Make the boot disk.  Send your system for repair.  When it comes back, make a fresh image of what they give you because why not.  Then restore the image as it existed before you sent it off.

Where to get it:
http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.aspx

Tons of youtube videos showing how to use it.  It's pretty simple.
https://www.google.com/search?q=youtube+macrium+reflect
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RevDisk

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Re: Backup a Vista harddrive
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2013, 10:16:59 AM »
Why not just take it to a place with high speed Internet (friend, school, work) and leave for a few hours?  Though a clean baseline image you can easily revert to is a worthy goal...

This. Count old image as lost. Get a ghosting/imaging program for going forward. If it is that important, store on two external drives.
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lee n. field

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Re: Backup a Vista harddrive
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2013, 12:48:35 PM »
Why not just take it to a place with high speed Internet (friend, school, work) and leave for a few hours?  Though a clean baseline image you can easily revert to is a worthy goal...

Getting Vista up to date is a long weary slog, even with high speed inet access.  Lots of updates.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Backup a Vista harddrive
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2013, 07:16:18 PM »
Vista has a backup and restore utility built into it. I haven't used it (I have avoided Vista like the plague that it is) but my understanding was that it worked fairly well. Why not use that? Does it not back up the system as well as applications and data files?

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/2007.09.backup.aspx
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Cliffh

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Re: Backup a Vista harddrive
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2013, 08:52:58 PM »
Windows has had a backup utility as far back as I can remember - I believe even Win3 had one.  I've tried every one up to WinXP, none have worked as advertized.  I'd rather not experiment on this computer.

This. Count old image as lost. Get a ghosting/imaging program for going forward. If it is that important, store on two external drives.

Why would I dump this install of Vista that works just fine & is setup just how I want it, only to have to do the same work again and then image the fresh install?  Seems like an unnecessary duplication of work.  That's not a rhetorical or snarky question, I assume you've got a good reason for suggesting that.

Ben

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Re: Backup a Vista harddrive
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2013, 09:31:04 PM »
A quick search seems to indicate that Vista backup is very similar to Win7 backup. Win7 backup is one of the few things MS has ever done right, IMNSHO. I only use Win7 backup currently (though if I was backing up Win8 I would probably use Macrium).

It is always wise to have a clean, bare image of just the OS and drivers needed for your computer, so that if TSHTF, you can rebuild off a clean install. It's nice to have an OS all tweaked the way you like it, but eventually all that tweaking and running the OS for a long time slows things down and injects variables that can potentially cause problems and be a bear to diagnose, making a nuke and clean reinstall the best option.

This is just how I do it, but I have several different reimage options available. It may be overkill, but disk space is cheap and I like options. On the new Lenovo I recently got, I set it up like this:

1) Turn on machine and let it do all the bootup stuff new machines like to do. Once I'm past the login screen, I disconnect the network before it can start downloading every freakin' update in the universe.

2) Make a factory recovery disk. In this case I made a 16gb flash drive my factory recovery disk.

3) Create an initial Win7 backup of the bare OS in its newly booted state (sort of the same as step 2, but using Win backup).

4) Plug back into the network and let Win7 get all the critical MS updates it needs to get. Make another disk image.

5) Install all my software, make GUI tweaks I like to make, move data onto drive. Let updates run again. Make another Win7 backup.

6) Setup weekly backups and forget about them till I need one.

This gives me several options. If I did something stupid, like install a prg that screws stuff up, I can just reimage with the previous week's backup with minimal data loss. If that doesn't work, I can go back to the image in step 5. If things are still screwed up, I can go back tp one of the "barebones" images I had to rebuild the system.
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lee n. field

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Re: Backup a Vista harddrive
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2013, 10:12:54 PM »
Vista Home crippled the backup.  I ran into that once.  I'm vague on the details right now, other than the command line (wbadmin) isn't there.
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Cliffh

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Re: Backup a Vista harddrive
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2013, 10:52:47 PM »
Not to brag, or to sound as if I'm rejecting any of the suggestions offered, (they're good suggestions and should be followed), more of an FYI.  Basically, I've gotten busy & lazy.  Too busy & lazy to want to spend the (many) days required to rebuild this system to it's present, workable, condition.  Access to high speed Internet means either sitting in the local library for days, or a few 150 mile round trips to SIL's place.

I ran a shop out of my converted garage from '94 to '04, building/selling new & repairing personal computers.  Setup LAN's for a few local companies, did repair work for the city, received a visit and award from APS for selling enough of their UPS's and had a fair sized client list of private parties.  Got my Novell Network Admin cert., fell one test short of Network Engineer 'cause business got too busy.

I gave my clients a lot of advice that I no longer follow, such as doing thorough backups like Ben does.  Important data files are backed up to removable media & stored appropriately, but that's about it.  I do follow some of the other advice though - I don't crap up my system with a lot of unnecessary "stuff".   If a catastrophic failure were to happen, I've got the factory system restore to fall back on.

Ben

  Have you tried a full system restore with either Vista or Win7 backup?  I.e. factory restore, then restore to present condition.  If so, how did it work out?

I sincerely appreciate all the input.  It's nice to have a place with so many folks willing to help.

Ben

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Re: Backup a Vista harddrive
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2013, 10:59:37 PM »
Ben

  Have you tried a full system restore with either Vista or Win7 backup?  I.e. factory restore, then restore to present condition.  If so, how did it work out?

I sincerely appreciate all the input.  It's nice to have a place with so many folks willing to help.

I've never run Vista, but have done a half dozen or so restores under Win 7, using weekly backups (so OS reimage plus all my software and data, etc). Works like a charm. I hated XP backup and never used it. Love Win7 backup.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Cliffh

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Re: Backup a Vista harddrive
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2013, 11:14:29 PM »
I wish I had more time and another system to play around with. 

This isn't something I have to jump on tonight, think I'll ruminate on it for a while.

lee n. field

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Re: Backup a Vista harddrive
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2013, 08:51:16 AM »
I've never run Vista, but have done a half dozen or so restores under Win 7, using weekly backups (so OS reimage plus all my software and data, etc). Works like a charm. I hated XP backup and never used it. Love Win7 backup.

XP/W2k/W2k3 backup works fine.  Fairly easy to make a batch file to run it or schedule it to run.  For some reason scheduling from inside ntbackup never was reliable (for me, YMMV).

PITA to do a bare metal restore, because you have to do a basic install of the OS first.  I've had to do this several times. 

Quote
Having only a dial-up connection, downloading all the updates is painful.

You can't even, realistically, get antivirus updates over dialup anymore.  Too big.
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RevDisk

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Re: Backup a Vista harddrive
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2013, 08:53:56 AM »
Windows has had a backup utility as far back as I can remember - I believe even Win3 had one.  I've tried every one up to WinXP, none have worked as advertized.  I'd rather not experiment on this computer.

Why would I dump this install of Vista that works just fine & is setup just how I want it, only to have to do the same work again and then image the fresh install?  Seems like an unnecessary duplication of work.  That's not a rhetorical or snarky question, I assume you've got a good reason for suggesting that.

*shrug*

It's your machine and the advice you get is worth what you paid for it.

There's a couple reasons. First and foremost, it's a known good process. If you are infected or compromised, it is not ever again really trustworthy. It is only "possibly trustworthy or uninfected". I don't go to the overkill that Ben does, but not that far off. I have a thumb drive with all my installers and drivers. I install the base OS, with tweaks if preferred, then my executables including my AV of choice. Then I take my image, which is optional but may be a good idea. Then and only then do I expose it to any network connection for patching, updates, etc. Then I take another image. I keep my data off system unless I'm actively working on it. Ben took more images than I'd want to personally do, but it's not a bad idea.

The other reason is just a personal preference, it's a stable build process. If I've worked an image for long enough, I've likely collected all kinds of bits around the system I don't know about and wouldn't want. Random abandoned DLLs or executables left over after uninstalls, temporary changes that got forgotten, etc. This is a far second to security, but stability is nice as well.
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Ben

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Re: Backup a Vista harddrive
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2013, 09:19:29 AM »
Yeah, I could easily get rid of step 3, and/or replace factory recovery with the initial Win7 image, or vice versa. I've actually now only had two computers with a factory image (all my previous ones were either homebuilt, or older laptops from before a factory image was included on the HD). I've never done a factory reimage, which is why I get overly redundant on the Win backups, just in case I screw something up. A guy could easily go from bare (or factory) image, to image with software/data installed, to a regular backup schedule.

Images are just so easy to do these days that I just don't care about going overboard when all I do is hit a button, or have autobackup, and let it run unnoticed in the background. A far cry from back when I had an NT machine backing up to a tape drive. :)
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Calumus

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Re: Backup a Vista harddrive
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2013, 10:59:02 AM »
Instead of exposing an unpatched system to a network,  you could keep an updated version of this
http://download.wsusoffline.net
On a thumbdrive.

Phantom Warrior

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Re: Backup a Vista harddrive
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2013, 06:18:46 PM »
I might experiment with this over Christmas.  Any suggestion for a good imaging software, preferably free?

lee n. field

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Re: Backup a Vista harddrive
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2013, 08:26:04 PM »
I might experiment with this over Christmas.  Any suggestion for a good imaging software, preferably free?

clonezilla
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Phantom Warrior

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Re: Backup a Vista harddrive
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2013, 08:58:10 PM »
I keep hearing that...

Cliffh

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Re: Backup a Vista harddrive
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2013, 10:41:53 PM »
*shrug*

It's your machine and the advice you get is worth what you paid for it.

There's a couple reasons. First and foremost, it's a known good process. If you are infected or compromised, it is not ever again really trustworthy. It is only "possibly trustworthy or uninfected". I don't go to the overkill that Ben does, but not that far off. I have a thumb drive with all my installers and drivers. I install the base OS, with tweaks if preferred, then my executables including my AV of choice. Then I take my image, which is optional but may be a good idea. Then and only then do I expose it to any network connection for patching, updates, etc. Then I take another image. I keep my data off system unless I'm actively working on it. Ben took more images than I'd want to personally do, but it's not a bad idea.

The other reason is just a personal preference, it's a stable build process. If I've worked an image for long enough, I've likely collected all kinds of bits around the system I don't know about and wouldn't want. Random abandoned DLLs or executables left over after uninstalls, temporary changes that got forgotten, etc. This is a far second to security, but stability is nice as well.

Very good points.  Pretty much what I used to tell my clients.  Best to nuke it and start all over after a couple/three years, if you're one who installs/uninstalls programs, goes to questionable websites, etc.

In this case I haven't installed or uninstalled a program in over a year, actually closer to two years.  And that was to install Firefox.

As lee n. field said, even anti-virus updates can take most of the night.  I've downloaded MS updates that had to be spread out over 2 or 3 nights for each update.  The Macrium download might finish in one night.