Author Topic: Powering Spaceship with a Blackhole  (Read 2509 times)

Scout26

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Powering Spaceship with a Blackhole
« on: January 15, 2014, 10:53:00 AM »
Ow, ow, ow !!  My Brain !!!  Science ow, ow, ow...

Anywho, spaceship, blackhole, fractional close to C travel.  What say the brain trust??

http://news.discovery.com/space/powering-a-starship-with-a-black-hole-engine-140114.htm#mkcpgn=fbsci1
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Viking

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Re: Powering Spaceship with a Blackhole
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2014, 11:03:31 AM »
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Scout26

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Re: Powering Spaceship with a Blackhole
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2014, 11:57:40 AM »
What could possibly go wrong?

Debbie Downer.  :P
Movie =/= reality (or anything closely resembling anything in reality, at anytime, at any point in history.)   ;)

Seriously, possible and if so, would this be the way to begin to move humanity to the stars?


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Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
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makattak

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Re: Powering Spaceship with a Blackhole
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2014, 11:58:48 AM »
As I recall from Star Trek, the Romulans powered their star ships with a black hole.

This is likely not a new theory.

Quote
In his 1955 paper...

Looks like my instincts were right. And they mention it in the article.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 12:02:11 PM by makattak »
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Powering Spaceship with a Blackhole
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2014, 12:35:13 PM »
The article only mentions the energy for fractional c travel in terms of pure energy.

No mention is made on how to turn an SK black hole's radiation into thrust.  I doubt that taking the subatomic particle radiation and directing it to a single vector will create much impulse, if any.

Is the radiation usable, somehow?  Can it generate heat?  Or be collected via some sort of photovoltaic or kugelblitz voltaic panel, and converted into electricity?  And since the SK black hole is going to be constructed by the means described in the article:

Quote
He suggested that if enough pure energy could be focused into a region of space, that energy would form a microscopic black hole, which could be described by the equations of Karl Schwarzschild -- a "Schwarzschild Kugelblitz" (or SK).

... then why not just save that energy in the first place and use this power source that has the power to make a black hole on demand, rather than manufacturing a bunch of ball lighting to crush energy into a black mass? 

Energy (ball lightning) to mass (black hole) to energy (Hawking Radiation) just doesn't seem like an efficient means of spacecraft thrust.

I suppose it appeals as a form of battery, as long as you can actually convert Hawking Radiation into something useful and at a high enough rate of efficiency.
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AJ Dual

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Re: Powering Spaceship with a Blackhole
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2014, 12:43:13 PM »
As I recall from Star Trek, the Romulans powered their star ships with a black hole.

This is likely not a new theory.

Yes, using quantum singularities as power sources, or weapons, has been in Sci-Fi for a while.

Instead of just letting the quantum singularity evaporate and capture it's mass/energy from the gamma radiation of the escaping Hawking Radiation, I might be tempted to "feed" it with a particle beam (It would have to be something like a partial Dyson sphere, ring, arc or "cap" to both capture enough energy from the Sun, and to be long enough to create the requisite energy as a particle accelerator.) I’d blast the singularity and make it “eat” positively charged ions/charged particles since one of the attributes a black hole still has outside it’s event horizon/ Schwarzschild  radius besides it’s mass, and the Hawking Radiation from quantum tunneling/particle-antiparticle pair splits is “charge”. Then I could manipulate it and move it, or build a structure around it using magnetic fields.

Since it has enormous gravitational attraction, albeit very close to its sub-microscopic Event Horizon, can be “held” magnetically due to its charge, perhaps it would be possible to balance its charge with its gravitational attraction so it would both simultaneously hold and repel protons/hydrogen ions just above the event horizon, heated by the Hawking/gamma radiation to boost it, and get very high order fusion.  If reactions were tailored to produce an excess of neutrons, being neutral, they’d only have gravitational attraction at the event horizon, not be repelled by the singularity’s positive charge, and add back mass-energy that had been lost through the Hawking radiation.

As such you’d have a mass/energy conversion machine.  The downside is that it’s really no longer a quantum singularity, but perhaps an atom-sized one, for it to be able to ‘eat’ and be ‘fed’ particles in this manner. So we’re actually talking about a singularity that’s more like asteroid-mass, and as such is that much harder and more energy intensive to move. The upside is when quantum singularities evaporate and lose mass, it starts to accelerate geometrically as the event horizon gets ever smaller, it intersects and splits ever more virtual particle pairs, and eventually goes off with a final gamma burst that's something on the order of two million megatons...

So perhaps using this as a more permanent installation to power launch lasers for solar sails or somesuch might be a better application than using it as a ship’s drive or power source. But then that begs the question that it may just be better to use the Dyson arc’s or sphere solar collector in the first place rather than go through all this trouble. Or use it’s captured energy to make anti-matter instead.
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MechAg94

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Re: Powering Spaceship with a Blackhole
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2014, 01:18:34 PM »
The last SciFi book I recall using that tech said the ship generated a black hole and somehow kept it contained, but continuously generated it out in front of the ship using it's gravity to pull the ship through space, or you might say the ship was constantly falling into the black hole which stayed out in front.  It was one of those magic things invented to make the ships move. 
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Re: Powering Spaceship with a Blackhole
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2014, 01:42:40 PM »
Quote
Powering Spaceship with a Blackhole

So it would require the entire federal budget?   ;)
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geronimotwo

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Re: Powering Spaceship with a Blackhole
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2014, 02:13:05 PM »
The last SciFi book I recall using that tech said the ship generated a black hole and somehow kept it contained, but continuously generated it out in front of the ship using it's gravity to pull the ship through space, or you might say the ship was constantly falling into the black hole which stayed out in front.  It was one of those magic things invented to make the ships move. 

sounds like the perfect pirate deterrent!
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Re: Powering Spaceship with a Blackhole
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2014, 03:13:30 PM »
So it would require the entire federal budget?   ;)

Remember, NASA is all but kaput!  This would be done by a private company and only if they can make money doing it.
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Re: Powering Spaceship with a Blackhole
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2014, 03:21:07 PM »
Wouldn't it be easier to keep the ship stationary and move the rest of the universe around it?

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HankB

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Re: Powering Spaceship with a Blackhole
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2014, 06:55:43 PM »
. . . No mention is made on how to turn an SK black hole's radiation into thrust . . .
I thought everyone knew you had to rectify the emitted nadion particles through the dilithium matrix, using Heisenberg compensators to prevent derezzing of the luppingsnarf during tachyon conversion . . .   ;/
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Re: Powering Spaceship with a Blackhole
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2014, 07:04:43 PM »
I thought everyone knew you had to rectify the emitted nadion particles through the dilithium matrix, using Heisenberg compensators to prevent derezzing of the luppingsnarf during tachyon conversion . . .   ;/

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Re: Powering Spaceship with a Blackhole
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2014, 07:26:25 PM »
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Re: Powering Spaceship with a Blackhole
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2014, 07:42:04 PM »
Wouldn't it be easier to keep the ship stationary and move the rest of the universe around it?


Probably not.
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Re: Powering Spaceship with a Blackhole
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2014, 07:58:54 PM »
I recall it not working out so well for a certain ship by the name of Event Horizon
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Azrael256

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Re: Powering Spaceship with a Blackhole
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2014, 09:33:55 PM »
As I recall from Star Trek, the Romulans powered their star ships with a black hole.

This is likely not a new theory.

Quantum singularity. And an artificial one at that. No black hole. Don't you pay attention?!

Parker Dean

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Re: Powering Spaceship with a Blackhole
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2014, 10:11:02 PM »
The last SciFi book I recall using that tech said the ship generated a black hole and somehow kept it contained, but continuously generated it out in front of the ship using it's gravity to pull the ship through space, or you might say the ship was constantly falling into the black hole which stayed out in front.  It was one of those magic things invented to make the ships move. 

I believe you're talking about the Kinoshita-Kurita, or double-k, Drive, from one of Alan Dean Foster's book series

HankB

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Re: Powering Spaceship with a Blackhole
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2014, 10:31:37 PM »
I believe you're talking about the Kinoshita-Kurita, or double-k, Drive, from one of Alan Dean Foster's book series
I remember reading some of those, and I always wondered . . . what about tides?
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Re: Powering Spaceship with a Blackhole
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2014, 01:46:18 AM »
Quote
....or weapons, has been in Sci-Fi for a while.

Pretty please, with a cherry on top.



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Re: Powering Spaceship with a Blackhole
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2014, 09:42:47 AM »
I recall it not working out so well for a certain ship by the name of Event Horizon

I take it you got to that movie late!  :P or didn't mash the link

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