Author Topic: Your Refrigerator is Spying on You  (Read 4548 times)

Ben

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Your Refrigerator is Spying on You
« on: January 20, 2014, 09:51:49 AM »
Given it's on Fox News now. some of you may have already heard about it from the tech sites after it happened. Though I've read about the possibilities, this is the first story I've read about a widespread attack.

I don't have any "smart appliances" in my house (my TV may qualify with the RJ45 jack, but that stays unplugged and it doesn't have wireless), so am unfamiliar with their default settings. Are they all just wide open? I would have assumed at least WiFi Protected setup ability or some other protection that keeps them behind a firewall. I wonder if most of these attacks were through routers and stuff with no or bad security (admin/admin, no WiFi security, etc.)?

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2014/01/20/hackers-use-refrigerator-in-cyber-attack/?intcmp=features
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RevDisk

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Re: Your Refrigerator is Spying on You
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2014, 11:20:57 AM »
Given it's on Fox News now. some of you may have already heard about it from the tech sites after it happened. Though I've read about the possibilities, this is the first story I've read about a widespread attack.

I don't have any "smart appliances" in my house (my TV may qualify with the RJ45 jack, but that stays unplugged and it doesn't have wireless), so am unfamiliar with their default settings. Are they all just wide open? I would have assumed at least WiFi Protected setup ability or some other protection that keeps them behind a firewall. I wonder if most of these attacks were through routers and stuff with no or bad security (admin/admin, no WiFi security, etc.)?

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2014/01/20/hackers-use-refrigerator-in-cyber-attack/?intcmp=features

Firewall, deny rules, no worries.  ;)

Actually, speaking of... My provider provided modem has pass-through mode, which I should take advantage of and replace. Not sure whether to go with an industrial firewall like MikroTik or reflash a consumer firewall with something like TomatoUSB / OpenWrt / DD-WRT.

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dm1333

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Re: Your Refrigerator is Spying on You
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2014, 05:58:36 PM »
That explains why, despite the drawn shades, I keep getting all this spam about kicking my porn habit!   [tinfoil]


Perd Hapley

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Re: Your Refrigerator is Spying on You
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2014, 06:22:03 PM »
fridges are networked now? to what end?
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Viking

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Re: Your Refrigerator is Spying on You
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2014, 06:30:13 PM »
fridges are networked now? to what end?
To spy on you, obviously.
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dm1333

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Re: Your Refrigerator is Spying on You
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2014, 06:43:28 PM »
fridges are networked now? to what end?

This is how Skynet started.

Jim147

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Re: Your Refrigerator is Spying on You
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2014, 07:03:42 PM »
My company installed a bunch of these units in a test group back around 2005. I was too busy running the service side, fixing the service vans and keeping the network up and running in the office to pay much attention to it. When I was leaving that company at the end of 2007, our guys were out replacing the doors with the computers in them with plain doors. I'm not sure what scrapped that early project but maybe it was getting hacked.

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230RN

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Re: Your Refrigerator is Spying on You
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2014, 07:21:28 PM »
I'm pretty sure I read about this a couple of months ago.

I remember thinking that Uncle Bill, out there in Redmond must have a fun time with his whole house being net enabled (presumably for remote control and whole-house monitoring, fistful).

My furtive and fertile funny brain imagined him off somewhere and his refrigerator emailing him that he left the kitchen window open.

CLOSE WINDOW
EXIT
HELP

Terry, 230RN

ETA Changed stove on to window open.

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« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 10:06:50 PM by 230RN »
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

Ben

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Re: Your Refrigerator is Spying on You
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2014, 07:29:46 PM »
My furtive and fertile funny brain imagined him off somewhere and his refrigerator emailing him that he left the stove on.


I actually like this part of the whole home networking thing. I've come back home on more than one occasion because I thought, "Did I leave the stove burner on? Did I lock the front door?" I think because I'm not alone in that absentmindedness, that Google will be making a mint on this company (can't remember the name) that they just bought out.

It appears though that there are quite a few security issues that will have to be addressed. Certainly computer savvy people will mostly be smart enough to lock their networks down. I still have neighbors, however, with no security enabled on their wireless routers. They'll be ripe for the picking. As will savvy users if all these network aware appliances come with security holes the size of Texas in them.
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Jamie B

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Re: Your Refrigerator is Spying on You
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2014, 07:43:24 PM »
I'm pretty sure I read about this a couple of months ago.

I remember thinking that Uncle Bill, out there in Redmond must have a fun time with his whole house being net enabled (presumably for remote control and whole-house monitoring, fistful).

My furtive and fertile funny brain imagined him off somewhere and his refrigerator emailing him that he left the stove on.

CLOSE WINDOW
EXIT
HELP

Terry, 230RN

Sent from my tapatalk toaster

Yea, well, if we all had the roughly $40mil (IIRC) that little Billy spent on his house, maybe we could have dinner ready when we get home.

Unless, of course, the dreaded blue screen of death appeared.....


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Lee

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Re: Your Refrigerator is Spying on You
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2014, 08:05:56 PM »
The Maytag repairman ain't so lonely now.

Scout26

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Re: Your Refrigerator is Spying on You
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2014, 08:22:26 PM »
10 Make Ice
20 Dispense Ice through door
30 Goto 10


 =D =D =D
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Your Refrigerator is Spying on You
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2014, 10:37:03 PM »

I remember thinking that Uncle Bill, out there in Redmond must have a fun time with his whole house being net enabled (presumably for remote control and whole-house monitoring, fistful).



I'm still wondering why Bill wants to talk to his fridge. I mean, turning on the porch light, and adjusting the thermostat, I get that. But what are people remotely toggling their fridges to do?  ???
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Ben

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Re: Your Refrigerator is Spying on You
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2014, 11:11:22 PM »

I'm still wondering why Bill wants to talk to his fridge. I mean, turning on the porch light, and adjusting the thermostat, I get that. But what are people remotely toggling their fridges to do?  ???

http://www.lg.com/us/refrigerators/lg-LFX31995ST-french-3-door-refrigerator
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Perd Hapley

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Ben

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Re: Your Refrigerator is Spying on You
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2014, 12:34:41 AM »
Not terribly explanatory, but thanks.

Maybe I'm not understanding your question. The website and videos give examples of what smart fridges do - keep food inventories, alert you to stuff that's going to expire, tell you what's missing, if anything, for whatever you want to cook up, send shopping lists to your phone, talk to your smart oven, among other things.

Not that I'm either for or against the appliances (besides my aforementioned desire for an oven that lets me know if I left a burner on). Personally, from the videos, it seems like a lot of touchscreen (and probably barcode scanner) time that I'd rather spend doing something else. But they do pretty much give you examples of what a smart fridge does.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Firethorn

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Re: Your Refrigerator is Spying on You
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2014, 12:48:08 AM »
I'm still wondering why Bill wants to talk to his fridge. I mean, turning on the porch light, and adjusting the thermostat, I get that. But what are people remotely toggling their fridges to do?  ???

Ohkay, how to keep this simple...

It allows you to keep track of the temperature inside, as opposed to 'set and forget'.
The next step is basically giving you a handy spot to build your shopping list up(need more milk!), with the option that if you have a grocery delivery service, that said list is sent to them automatically.
If you care to input it and keep it up to date it can automatically expire stuff and add replacements to the list.  Let's say you always want something that's semi-perishable in your fridge, but you don't normally use all of it before it goes bad.  It'll remind you to toss out the old one and buy a new one.

Advanced future versions could theoretically do things like continuously monitor the temperature profile of your milk and tell you when it's really unsafe/no longer suitable to drink, as opposed to the 'guesstamite' printed on the container.  Also, detect as you add/remove product, keeping track of each item.  That would require something on each item, such as an RFID chip though, and methods to determine fluid level cheaply/accurately enough still need to be developed.  An IR camera would work, for example.

Right now it's a race between convenience and the tracking, and 'convenience' is winning - it's a LOT of work to keep the system up, and commercial kitchens just do it with sticky labels and daily checks.

On the other hand, my habit of only buying what I'll use in the next week or so, combined with buying containers that I'll use up before expiration does me well.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 08:41:51 AM by Firethorn »

KD5NRH

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Re: Your Refrigerator is Spying on You
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2014, 03:38:57 AM »
if you have a grovery delivery service,


lee n. field

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Re: Your Refrigerator is Spying on You
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2014, 08:18:05 AM »

Advanced future versions could theoretically do things like

Inform the authorities when you're harbouring Jews or other undesirables.
 [tinfoil]
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RevDisk

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Re: Your Refrigerator is Spying on You
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2014, 08:38:14 AM »
Advanced future versions could theoretically do things like continuously monitor the temperature profile of your milk and tell you when it's really unsafe/no longer suitable to drink, as opposed to the 'guesstamite' printed on the container.  Also, detect as you add/remove product, keeping track of each item.  That would require something on each item, such as an RFID chip though, and methods to determine fluid level cheaply/accurately enough still need to be developed.  An IR camera would work, for example.

Right now it's a race between convenience and the tracking, and 'convenience' is winning - it's a LOT of work to keep the system up, and commercial kitchens just do it with sticky labels and daily checks.

On the other hand, my habit of only buying what I'll use in the next week or so, combined with buying containers that I'll use up before expiration does me well.

The tech already exists. We used the SnapOn Level 5 tool control system at Sikorsky, starting about 5 years ago. Uses image/weight recognition instead of bar codes, RFID, etc. True, the devil is in the details (engineered convenience).




Inform the authorities when you're harbouring Jews or other undesirables.
 [tinfoil]

Actually, yes, that sort of thing as well. The PRC Ministry for State Security has used all sorts of electronic tricks for hunting dissents. We use them all the time to hunt down insurgents. Iraq/Afghanistan would not have gone nearly as well if the terrorists, insurgents, resistance, whatever groups had used TrueCrypt and OpenSSL.

On the plus side, security geeks have mapped all of these issues out decades ago. If you're willing to do the research and work, all of the state electronic warfare techniques have been cataloged and counter-measured. Remember the thread with folks freaking out about the NSA bought some pseudo-quantum computers from D-wave? And the security geeks here yawned, and said the issue was fixed decades ago?

The trick is implementation. I can show you hacking hardware for quantum key exchange, which is unbreakable. How can the unbreakable, impossible to trick QKE be hacked? Implementation. Always implementation. The bane of theoretical information security game theory.
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vaskidmark

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Re: Your Refrigerator is Spying on You
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2014, 09:13:46 AM »
Want to know how secure your computer/router are?

https://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2

Yes, it is a safe link!  Got it from Borepatch  http://borepatch.blogspot.com/

As a matter of fact, it's to a site called "ShieldsUp!" - as in "Shields up, Mr. Sulu."

Lots of tests to see just how secure your computer and router are.  I suggest you try all of them.

A hint - the site does not, for reasons they explain if you try, work with your back button to get from one test's results to the next test.  Go to the top of the page, hit "Products" and then "ShieldsUp" and then do your next test.  The cumbersomeness is not that much to deal with.

BTW - according to them I am as snug as a bug in a rug.  :P

stay safe.
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MechAg94

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Re: Your Refrigerator is Spying on You
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2014, 09:41:01 AM »
This thread reminds me of a scifi book I read a few years ago.  I forget the name, but all appliances in homes had AI's installed to control the appliance.  Since most of the time, the AI's were not used, they got bored and spent all their time gossiping with the AI's of other appliances.  The "hero" of the story figured out how to plugg into their gossip and get information.  The AI's weren't actively spying, just bored.
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Scout26

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Re: Your Refrigerator is Spying on You
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2014, 09:41:47 AM »
Holy Crap !!!

It's good to see that Gibson research is still around.  I remember when they first hit the Interwebz after there had been a DOS attack on ??? I disremember at the moment.
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Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
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Tallpine

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Re: Your Refrigerator is Spying on You
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2014, 10:55:39 AM »
The NSA will be using your smart fridge to monitor your diet for Obamacare  ;/
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41magsnub

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Re: Your Refrigerator is Spying on You
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2014, 11:15:37 AM »
The NSA will be using your smart fridge to monitor your diet for Obamacare  ;/

I figure it will be your smart toilet sending your vitals to Obamacare   [tinfoil]