Evidence that the Bible is wrong

[Perd Hapley]

A Mesopotamian story says that some Mesopotamian god wanted some Mesopotamian guy to build some Mesopotamian ark that was round.

Therefore, this somehow corrects the Bible, which describes a not-round ark being built.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_BRITAIN_ANCIENT_ARK?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-01-24-14-58-33


Yeah, that makes sense.    

[vaskidmark]

What's that scene in Firefly where River is correcting all the errors in Shepard's Book?

http://speely.wordpress.com/2011/04/14/firefly-and-the-holy-bible/  Check the specific reference to Noah's Ark.

stay safe.

[Hawkmoon]

Didn't they recently find the remains of the ark, on Mount Ararat in Turkey, right where the Bible said it would be? And it wasn't round.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/27/noahs-ark-found-evangelis_n_553999.html#s85512

[MechAg94]

"The idea that floods are caused by sin is happily still alive among us," he added

Caused by sin?  I guess he has never read it. 

Why do people keep thinking these other stories bother Christians? 

[lee n. field]

Why do people keep thinking these other stories bother Christians? 

Seriously.

We've had the epic of Gilgamesh for a long time.  And the Enuma Elish.  The fact that the ancient Israelites lived in a context that included other pagan religions is not, and has never been a problem.

[Marnoot]

I've never understood why they think finding other cultures with flood legends, even very, very similar ones that predate israelite settlement, somehow damage the Bible.

To any believing Jew, Christian, or Muslim, of course most cultures will have similar flood legends; as the post-flood cultures would have descended from the people on the Ark, carrying the story with them.

[Ron]

There are ancient flood legends recorded among cultures on every continent; neither proving nor disproving anything.

[Regolith]

Didn't they recently find the remains of the ark, on Mount Ararat in Turkey, right where the Bible said it would be? And it wasn't round.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/27/noahs-ark-found-evangelis_n_553999.html#s85512

No.  http://snopes.com/religion/noahsark.asp

[Jamisjockey]

There is evidence that during a globalular warming period about 7000 years ago, the Med pushed a channel through to the Black Sea causing a catastrophic localized flood event.
I'm pretty confident that is where the Christian flood story comes from.

[Hawkmoon]

No.  http://snopes.com/religion/noahsark.asp

Well, "most" scientists agree that global warming is real and a threat. Appeals to "scientific authorities" don't impress me as much as they once might have.

I've seen the aerial photographs of the purported ark site (if I could find the article I would post the link), and speaking as someone who has done graduate-level coursework in aerial photo interpretation, I do not accept that the VERY regular and symmetrical shape on the ground in Turkey is the result of mud being thrust up by earthquake activity.

[geronimotwo]

it's unfortunate (and i'm not saying this in regards to the photo that hawkmoon saw) that photo and video production has developed to the point that we can't tell the difference between real and fake anymore.

[Regolith]

Well, "most" scientists agree that global warming is real and a threat. Appeals to "scientific authorities" don't impress me as much as they once might have.

I've seen the aerial photographs of the purported ark site (if I could find the article I would post the link), and speaking as someone who has done graduate-level coursework in aerial photo interpretation, I do not accept that the VERY regular and symmetrical shape on the ground in Turkey is the result of mud being thrust up by earthquake activity.

There's a bit of a difference between reading the tea leaves of a massively complex system like climate and examining a simple, if somewhat large, archeological site. I think hubris has pushed scientists into thinking they understand what's happening with the weather better than they actually do, but there really isn't anyway to misinterpret the site in Turkey, aside from wishful ignorance on the part of those who want it to be something it isn't.

[Perd Hapley]

We've found other artifacts from the Biblical settings. If we found the ark, (either Noah's or Moses') that would be cool, too.

Whether we find it or not, we know that the Bible is a reliable source of history, and that Noah actually survived an actual, global flood in a big wooden boat full of critters.

So whatever. 

[freakazoid]

I've never understood why we would think we will find it. I would think that after the flood it would of been dissembled and all that wood used for building things.

[Fitz]

I've never understood why we would think we will find it. I would think that after the flood it would of been dissembled and all that wood used for building things.

this

[lee n. field]

We've found other artifacts from the Biblical settings. If we found the ark, (either Noah's or Moses') that would be cool, too.

Whether we find it or not, we know that the Bible is a reliable source of history, and that Noah actually survived an actual, global flood in a big wooden boat full of critters.

So whatever. 

Any chance you listened to Issues, Etc.'s interview with Reza Aslan, a couple weeks back?

[roo_ster]

Any chance you listened to Issues, Etc.'s interview with Reza Aslan, a couple weeks back?

I listened to that as well as John Warwick Montgomery's response:
http://issuesetc.org/2014/01/14/1-responding-to-reza-aslan-author-of-zealot-the-life-and-times-of-jesus-of-nazareth-dr-john-warwick-montgomery-11414/
Snippet: http://issuesetc.org/podcast/sbotwmonty01-17-14.mp3

[dogmush]

Whether we find it or not, we know that the Bible is a reliable source of history, and that Noah actually survived an actual, global flood in a big wooden boat full of critters.

We do?  We know that every bit of land in the world was under water at the same time?

[lee n. field]

I listened to that as well as John Warwick Montgomery's response:
http://issuesetc.org/2014/01/14/1-responding-to-reza-aslan-author-of-zealot-the-life-and-times-of-jesus-of-nazareth-dr-john-warwick-montgomery-11414/
Snippet: http://issuesetc.org/podcast/sbotwmonty01-17-14.mp3

The guy (Aslan) struck me as very much reading his own presuppositions ("fact" vs. "truth") back into the ancient times, and being completely oblivious to it.

They spoke to a different historian last week.

[roo_ster]

The guy (Aslan) struck me as very much reading his own presuppositions ("fact" vs. "truth") back into the ancient times, and being completely oblivious to it.

They spoke to a different historian last week.

Without commenting on the content of his thesis, Aslan has a very poor grip on the level of sophistication of the ancient historians, scholars, etc.  I wonder if he comes to his understanding of them via ignorance or do his presuppositions force him to regard them as nincompoops?  I would not want to defend his view that folk like Thucydides and Xenophon did not know the difference between history and poetic myth.

[MechAg94]

We do?  We know that every bit of land in the world was under water at the same time?

How could you tell?  A 40 day flood event is not likely to leave a significant mark on the geological record. 

[fifth_column]

I've never understood why they think finding other cultures with flood legends, even very, very similar ones that predate israelite settlement, somehow damage the Bible.

To any believing Jew, Christian, or Muslim, of course most cultures will have similar flood legends; as the post-flood cultures would have descended from the people on the Ark, carrying the story with them.

Nice and neat and tidy. 

How could you tell?  A 40 day flood event is not likely to leave a significant mark on the geological record. 

A flood that covers every landmass on the planet at the same time?  That would be a huge geologic event.  Where would that amount of water come from?  Some magical being able to disregard the laws of physics?  Oh yeah . . . never mind . . .

[Balog]

Nice and neat and tidy. 

A flood that covers every landmass on the planet at the same time?  That would be a huge geologic event.  Where would that amount of water come from?  Some magical being able to disregard the laws of physics?  Oh yeah . . . never mind . . .

The general thinking is that it was before the breakup of Pangaea. Thus at the time there was only one landmass and the flood resulted in its breakup.

I always like when folks attempt to be derogatory towards religious people by talking about how we believe in magical sky fairies. Helps identify the fedora wearers. http://jerryblam.tumblr.com/post/48517080801/fedora-atheists

[fifth_column]

The general thinking is that it was before the breakup of Pangaea. Thus at the time there was only one landmass and the flood resulted in its breakup.

I always like when folks attempt to be derogatory towards religious people by talking about how we believe in magical sky fairies. Helps identify the fedora wearers. http://jerryblam.tumblr.com/post/48517080801/fedora-atheists

If there was a global flood, and since it's such a common myth I wouldn't be surprised there was one, it would have to have been early in the development of the planet.   

I like how if someone expresses disbelief of a particular religion they're typically labeled as atheists.  And, in this case, clowns . . .

[Balog]

Expressing disbelief != derision. And you'll note the point of the link isn't that all atheists are clowns, it's merely mocking the ones who feel the need to look down on those who believe differently than they do.

I'm not aware of any religion (aside from atheism) that doesn't believe in some type of entity or higher power that exists outside the rules of nature as we understand them. Even New Age religions that talk about the universal consciousness or Eastern mysticism sects that call it karma or a depersonified universal force still hold that same basic belief in something outside humanity. So yes, when someone decides to try and mock people for believing that there is something outside of randomly formed matter reacting to chemical impulses then it's generally a pretty safe bet that they're an atheist.