Are States sharing CCW lists with non-reciprocating States?

[AZRedhawk44]

http://personalliberty.com/2014/01/17/how-did-the-maryland-transportation-police-know-an-unarmed-man-from-florida-was-a-concealed-carry-gun-owner-before-they-pulled-him-over/

Floridan with CCW permit, not speeding or doing anything wrong, gets pulled over in Maryland.  First words out of the cop's mouth are "where is the gun?"

[tokugawa]

The cop scanned the plate, using an automated plate reader. That brought up the guys name and he ran it through the "universal info system" (it is called something else but I can't remember it right now), it is one of the DHS funded systems to compile state lists of basicly everything that is on file.
 That brought up the florida carry permit and that, as they say, was that.
 
 So in short, yes, they share, everything.  I read a breakdown on this somewhere.

[Ben]

You know, back a few months ago when I got pulled over for speeding and the cop was all into asking questions about why I had a Maxpedition, I didn't even think about this. I have four non-resident permits, and I bet at least one of them popped up when he ran me for warrants.

[AZRedhawk44]

This is horses#it, if they are sharing data interstate on CCW permits, but A4S1 (full faith and credit) is somehow not honored.

If Maryland knows that the man has a CCW permit, they are HONORING it.  "Honoring" being defined as acknowledging the legitimate existence of the license/act/papers.  They may be honoring it by persecuting him, but they are honoring it.  And that persecution is a violation of A4S1.


Downstream effects:  Many States keep electronic purchase logs of alcohol purchases.  Anecdotally, any time I get carded at the grocery store, if they go to electronically swipe my driver's license, I stop them and cancel the alcohol purchase.  Imagine if a similar system is in place in Colorado or Washington, regarding pot.  They electronically card everyone to make sure they're over 18.  A person tokes up in CO or WA, wakes up the next morning perfectly sober and responsible, and drives elsewhere.  They get pulled over in some other State and the drug tests commence.

Eff this.

[Tallpine]

Yet another reason I refuse to get a permit 

[fifth_column]

This country reminds me more and more of a novel by Zelazny:  My Name is Legion  With one notable difference; his protagonist is able to escape. . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Name_is_Legion_%28Zelazny_stories%29

[red headed stranger]

When I took my CCW class in AZ, the instructor, who is a former MCSO deputy chief, said that he knows of instances where AZ residents were stopped in CA, and the CHP got CCW information by having CHP dispatch call AZ DPS. 

[tokugawa]

Anyone familiar with  Mao's "1000 Flowers"?    This was a program to unit the country, allow formerly subversive ideas, open up discussion, etc. So all the dissidents came out into the open to embrace the fresh new air and add their voices to the political scene.  Then they were all arrested, having effectively revealed themselves.  I have  wondered if the "permit" system, and the gun buying impulse generated by the fear of future restrictions was, in effect, the same sort of program, IE, a method of flushing out the potential troublemakers.

[Balog]

Anyone familiar with  Mao's "1000 Flowers"?    This was a program to unit the country, allow formerly subversive ideas, open up discussion, etc. So all the dissidents came out into the open to embrace the fresh new air and add their voices to the political scene.  Then they were all arrested, having effectively revealed themselves.  I have  wondered if the "permit" system, and the gun buying impulse generated by the fear of future restrictions was, in effect, the same sort of program, IE, a method of flushing out the potential troublemakers.

I think you're seriously over-estimating our opponents here. These are the people who can't build a working website after multiple years and hundreds of millions of $.

[Tallpine]

Anyone familiar with  Mao's "1000 Flowers"?    This was a program to unit the country, allow formerly subversive ideas, open up discussion, etc. So all the dissidents came out into the open to embrace the fresh new air and add their voices to the political scene.  Then they were all arrested, having effectively revealed themselves.  I have  wondered if the "permit" system, and the gun buying impulse generated by the fear of future restrictions was, in effect, the same sort of program, IE, a method of flushing out the potential troublemakers.

The feds all of a sudden cracked down on medical weed in Montana.

I expect the same in Colorado, Oregon, etc in a few years.

[AZRedhawk44]

Trying to think of a solution to this:


State-level legislation in the pro-CCW states.  It dictates:

1. Being that the duty of the State is first and foremost to protect the citizens of the home pro-CCW state
2. Issuance of the CCW permit is in accordance with COTUS 2A
3. Issuance of the CCW permit is in accordance with the reality that the State cannot be protector of everyone in every place
4. Issuance of the CCW permit by that State neither grants nor restricts ability to carry in any other State for the home State citizen
5. Home State has no obligation to share CCW records with the Federal Government, including DHS/Fusion/Secret Service/DOD/FBI/ATF/DOJ/HHS.
6. Home State Citizens are best protected by restricting access to CCW permittee lists
7. Home State has no obligation to share CCW records with any other State

It is hereby enacted that never shall the home State CCW permittee list be shared with the Federal Government in any way, or with any other State/Commonwealth/Territory of the United States.

To facilitate validation of CCW permits by out-of-State of Federal law enforcement officers who encounter a home State CCW permit, validation may happen as follows:
1. The Agency, State and/or legal body that employs the officer must first acknowledge validity of the CCW permit with the home State... no validation will be available for States or Federal entities that would not allow the home State citizen to carry his concealed weapon regardless of permit status.
2. In the event #1 is satisfied, the only two pieces of information that will be used are the Driver's License Number of the person in question, and the CCW Permit Number of the permit in question.  There will never be correlation of names to permit lists, nor of license plates to permit lists, available to the Federal Government nor to any other State/Commonwealth/Territory of the United States.  Requests for validation will be honored in a singular fashion.  The requesting jurisdiction will provide both numbers from the License and Permit, and the home State will respond with a simple "Yes those numbers match a permit in our database" or "No those numbers do not match a permit in our database."  The spirit and intent is to prohibit a State or the Federal Government from spamming the system to fish for matches and build a list on their own.
3. #2 is in place expressly to protect home State citizens from profiling attempts in anti-CCW parts of the country that would otherwise use the information to deliberately harass law abiding citizens of the home State.

[Ron]

It is time to start working on burying this reasonable restrictions BS. Our gains across the nation contain within them the seeds of doom.

Owning and bearing a firearm is either protected under our human right to self defense or it isn't.

[p12]

I think you're seriously over-estimating our opponents here. These are the people who can't build a working website after multiple years and hundreds of millions of $.

Unless that is their intent?! Maybe they are playing you like a fiddle.

[Gowen]

Unless that is their intent?! Maybe they are playing you like a fiddle.

You shouldn't go down this road.  The governments (state, local and fed) are either the most inept groups in the history of the world or have the most evil plans in our nations history.  Either way we are SOL.

[Tallpine]

You shouldn't go down this road.  The governments (state, local and fed) are either the most inept groups in the history of the world or have the most evil plans in our nations history.  Either way we are SOL.

Not mutually exclusive 

[Balog]

Unless that is their intent?! Maybe they are playing you like a fiddle.

If fed.gov was really competent enough to pull off all of this elaborate scheming and conspiring I'd have less problem with them being more involved.

[Ron]

Reminds me of a quote I've kept because it describes me to a certain extent:

"I believe I have the exact right dose of paranoia. I’m suspicious of our government, but I also have a deep and abiding faith in its general incompetence. This belief spares me from some of the more gaudy and ambitious conspiracy theories."

[fifth_column]

If fed.gov was really competent enough to pull off all of this elaborate scheming and conspiring I'd have less problem with them being more involved.

A'int that the truth!

Having no faith in the .gov is endemic in our country.  It seems like an appropriately American attitude to have.

Also, see my tagline . . .

[tokugawa]

Everything is not a conspiracy per se-  just crowd sourced inclinations to act a certain way.

 Demonize a certain group, give the paid servants of the demonizers certain tools, and they will be inclined to hunt demons. No one specifically TOLD them to go demon hunting, but we all know those demons are bad and need to be taken down.

 "Who will rid me of this meddlesome priest" writ large.

 

[Gowen]

Everything is not a conspiracy per se-  just crowd sourced inclinations to act a certain way.

 Demonize a certain group, give the paid servants of the demonizers certain tools, and they will be inclined to hunt demons. No one specifically TOLD them to go demon hunting, but we all know those demons are bad and need to be taken down.

 "Who will rid me of this meddlesome priest" writ large.

 

So profound!  Very well writ. 

[brimic]

When dealing with police, especially behind enemy lines, 'STFU' should be protocol.

[Firethorn]

When dealing with police, especially behind enemy lines, 'STFU' should be protocol.

Sounds like more people need to remember to have a talk with their family.  Standard answer to 'Where's the gun' should be 'At home'.

[brimic]

Sounds like more people need to remember to have a talk with their family.  Standard answer to 'Where's the gun' should be 'At home'.

much better to train famiy to not talk at all. one answer will only lead to more questions.

[Strings]

>much better to train famiy to not talk at all. one answer will only lead to more questions.<

That can be problematic too

Recall a story about a family with VERY talkative kids, going across the border to Canada. Heavily stressed to the kids to keep quiet, and did too good a job

Border folks asked the kids a couple questions, and took their silence as a show of fear. LONG stay at the border while kids were questioned ensued