Horrific incident got me thinking

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

http://news.fredericksburg.com/newsdesk/2014/04/02/fire-thwarts-moms-rescue-attempts/

House fire. Mom is unable to reenter house to get baby.
I never drilled that scenario.  And how many folks have a ladder readily available to access the upper floors from outside? In this case a 24 foot woulda been too short. Lifting a 36 or 40 foot can be challenging for me. And so many folks put away their hoses for the winter so dousing it while its small is often out. I looked at the house yesterday and it made me nauseous

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[230RN]

The trouble with ladders from the outside is it allows folks other than rescuers (read, "burglars") get up to the higher windows.

On the other hand, I've thought about escape from upstairs a lot, and even bought one of those chain ladders but  brought it back to the store.  

First thing they tell you in the instructions is not to use it in a window where there's another window right below yours because the support legs which hold it away from the wall will break the window below you, swing toward the wall, and therefore make footing difficult.

Humph.  Most windows are one above the other, and this is so in my second-floor apartment.  Let me know if you find a dwelling with staggered windows.  

Also could not use it off the balcony because there's no wall support below it for those sticking-out legs I mentioned.

Best thing for me, given the limited storage space and the measurements involved, would be a thirteen or fourteen foot "straight" ladder I could keep upstairs and drop down --but where to find one?  I was seriously thinking about picking up an aluminum extension ladder and cutting off the 13ft needed, which would give me two ladders, but once again, storage space.

There is a rather large juniper bush under my bedroom window, and while I'm still looking for something better, I suppose I could throw some blankets down on it, then try to jump for it.

I'm too infirm to climb down a knotted rope, so that's kinda out, too.

I do keep fire extinguishers in every room but the bathroom.

What to do, what to do?

Terry, 230RN

More (horrific):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fire

[vaskidmark]

My most sincre condolences to the family, and especially to the mother.

If nothing else, this tragedy might serve as a reminder to carry out home fire drills, not just draw up those YOU ARE HERE diagrams.  I say that not to blame the family, but because I know so many people who have never given the first thought to how they would get out of the house if their primary exit were blocked, let alone how to herd several frightened children while you are also panicing.  One of the biggest obstacles to carrying out fire drills is the fear of how your family and neighbors might ridicule you for waking the family up at zero dark thirty and making them run out of the house to stand in the rain.  (Yes, I did that.  And no, nobody else was happy, not even the dogs.)

And Terry - something along these lines might help you:  http://www.menards.com/main/paint/ladders-scaffolding/multi-position-ladders/c-7984.htm

stay safe.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

burglary is an issue   not so much where i live
i have used chain ladders at my house never had problems with the window below or the glass door. and i am 230#
i am planning to stage a ladder outside


and i already leave my hoses drained outside on reels

[Tallpine]

I store our 20 ft ext ladder leaning against the wall under one of our bedroom windows. 

As far as burglars, well - there's a dozen ways to get into the house already.

When the girls were home, I kept a picnic table on the deck under their window.  They used that a few times just for the fun of it - I suppose backed out the window until hanging from the windowsill by their hands, and then dropping a few feet to the table.  Nobody sleeping in that bedroom these days.

In our VFD structure classes they are telling us about keeping bedroom doors closed, but in our case we need it for heat circulation unless we are going to run the electric baseboards.

This time of year, the hoses are all flaked underneath snow drifts, and the outside faucet doesn't work until the ground thaws 

[roo_ster]

Big ladder storage idea:

One or two pulleys installed int the bottom of the soffets, way up there.  Pulley system end goes to where it is easily accessed at ground/waist level.  Ladder & pully system adorned with noise-making doo-dads thay sound off when the ladder is lowered.  I am thinking sleigh bells, cow bells, etc.

[roo_ster]

Just read the article. 

I am going to put yet another smoke alarm in a goofy place.  I already have one in the garage, one in the bedroom closet with the breaker box, and one in the physical closet with the hot water heater & furnace.  The new ones will go on the front & back porch ceilings.

Also, I will look for a small 10' straight ladder to place under the eaves as I described.  My house is one story, but dropping the ladder, smashing it through a window at an angle, and then climbing into a bedroom sure sounds faster than futzing with a window and scrambling over the threshold.

[230RN]

While this is a general problem, in my specific escaping case, I can't go mounting stuff on the building.  'Taint my building.  

All around, for me, a lightweight straight aluminum 13 ft ladder would work best, and I could maneuver it around inside the apartment to get from, say, the bedrooms (straight down wall) to the balconies (which hang out away from the walls).

I'm was thinking of checking with Builders in the area to see if they perhaps had some unserviceable aluminum extension ladders I could wangle from them and I could cut apart, or even a straight ladder I could cut to size.

Again, specific to my problem, chained or otherwise flexible ladders would not work because of disability.

Thanks for the suggestions, though, and thanks to Cassandra and Sarah's Daddy for bringing up this general problem for the rest of you.  It got me thinking about it again regarding the specifics and assembling the "what ifs" in my mind... like "what if" that bush under my bedroom window were burning...?

Terry

[230RN]

double post

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I've always wondered about the standard for home architecture as a two storing building with the sleeping rooms on the upper level.  Seems like the exact wrong way to handle things from a fire safety standpoint.  Sleeping upstairs is better in terms of crime risk, but I suspect that fire is the much greater risk.  I'd be interestedto see what the actuarial data show.

Sorry, don't have any good suggestions to offer.  

[Nick1911]

On a related note, it's a good idea to check the fire extinguishers regularly.  I had one in the garage that had lost it's charge, which I've since replaced with a better quality commercial unit.

I made some mention of it at work -- and that's when I discovered that out of 7 software engineers, only myself and one other had fire extinguishers in our private dwellings.  Apparently the others hadn't considered it.   

I'm afraid I don't have any good ideas that would help, cs&d.

[Balog]

They do offer sprinkler systems for private dwellings. Based on the one's we have at work you could probably DIY one fairly cheaply, especially if it was command activated vs having heat sensitive heads.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

did fire restoration work for years
i have 11 fire extinguishers and always look for more at yard sales
i have smoke co and explosive gas detectors in the crawl space attic as well as every bedroom and the kitchen and room where woodstove is. none in bathrooms
i just walked the house most places you can see an extinguisher and no where except on the stairs are you further than 20 feet from one
i have never had to shoot anyone at home.  have had to put out 2 fires.  i know anecdote does not equal data but in this case its close enough for me.
my next step is this
http://www.amazon.com/Flame-Defender-Extinguisher-2kg/dp/B0030KM0V4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396540876&sr=8-1&keywords=automatic+fire+extinguisher
for bedrooms and kitchen  might get a bigger one for kitchen but its 200 bucks

and if you have kids wait till they are in deep sleep then set off smoke detector   lots of kids keep sleeping one of mine does.  
i think theres a video that shows how long it takes for a fire get outa control i can't find it   it doesn't take long

[Balog]

Some interesting data on the causes of home fires.

https://www.nfpa.org/~/media/Files/Research/Fact%20sheets/FireOverview.pdf

https://www.nfpa.org/research/reports-and-statistics/fire-causes

[tokugawa]

What a sad story.  A lesson may be to get the others first- applies in other cases too.

[roo_ster]

did fire restoration work for years
i have 11 fire extinguishers and always look for more at yard sales
i have smoke co and explosive gas detectors in the crawl space attic as well as every bedroom and the kitchen and room where woodstove is. none in bathrooms
i just walked the house most places you can see an extinguisher and no where except on the stairs are you further than 20 feet from one
i have never had to shoot anyone at home.  have had to put out 2 fires.  i know anecdote does not equal data but in this case its close enough for me.
my next step is this
http://www.amazon.com/Flame-Defender-Extinguisher-2kg/dp/B0030KM0V4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396540876&sr=8-1&keywords=automatic+fire+extinguisher
for bedrooms and kitchen  might get a bigger one for kitchen but its 200 bucks

and if you have kids wait till they are in deep sleep then set off smoke detector   lots of kids keep sleeping one of mine does.  
i think theres a video that shows how long it takes for a fire get outa control i can't find it   it doesn't take long

I only have the one extinguisher, at the threshold of the garage/kitchen doorway.

Need more.

[Balog]

They also sell loose batches of powdered extinguisher rated for metal fires very cheaply.

[KD5NRH]

I generally kept a commercial size ABC in the bedroom as a way to get myself down the hall to the girls' rooms, then a small BC at each door of the kitchen, plus garage access from the kitchen and a Tundra can in each car.  Hoses on reels at front and back doors, and lawn sprinkler controls in the garage.  (Edge of town with pastureland a block over.  Living in the country, we'd soak the lawn at the first hint of smoke, and it left us with an island of damp grass around the house among 250 charred acres once.)  Now I've got no one else to save, and I rent in a one-story house, so I sleep by a double window and call that good enough.

Often thought an attachment to spew foam from the lawn sprinklers would be really nice to have when there's a fire in the neighborhood.  Would make it worth adding a special circuit to the system to do the same for the roof right from the ridgeline.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

There are commercial systems to wet down a house. And a firefighter developed a hose end attatchment that uses the water repelling chemicals they use in diapers to make a clingly gel that protects structures

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[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Or this
http://money.cnn.com/2011/06/16/smallbusiness/fireice/

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[geronimotwo]

tragic story.    they don't mention the cause of the fire, but I'm betting it was a cigarette.

hey terry, how about a collapsible ladder?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-12-5Ft-Aluminum-Telescopic-Telescoping-Collapsible-Ladder-Extension-/231087772839?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35cde794a7

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

tragic story.    they don't mention the cause of the fire, but I'm betting it was a cigarette.

hey terry, how about a collapsible ladder?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-12-5Ft-Aluminum-Telescopic-Telescoping-Collapsible-Ladder-Extension-/231087772839?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35cde794a7

I thought same thing about cigarette
Folks smoke on front porch and a butt tossed smolders in the shrubs. The house had lots of nice azealeas around porch and some evergreens. I didn't know em more than waving as we passed but they seemed nice. I feel for who ever was smoking on that porch. That will be hard to live with.
The cops and fire dept here are pretty discreet. Once it was determined unintentional that will end their announcements.  They aren't much to pandering to the public. We had a good shooting a few years back and they kept shooters name private

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[wmenorr67]

Repelling rope with grappling hook?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Repelling rope with grappling hook?

 

not much ledge to grab

taught everyone how to remove window sahes. the tilt in windows its easy to strip frame bare  easy egress

[Tallpine]

Often thought an attachment to spew foam from the lawn sprinklers would be really nice to have when there's a fire in the neighborhood.

We have foam paks that go on the end of a 1" hose 

Most of the trucks have mixer devices now.  Water runs over a venturi that sucks the foam out of a bucket or a tank, in the case of one of the tenders.  Probably could set up something like that somewhere inline, like your basement.