Mexican military helicopter crosses border, fires on Border Patrol agents

[Balog]

http://www.kvoa.com/news/mexican-military-chopper-crosses-the-border-shoots-at-agents/

But, you know, the Mexicans apologized after so it's all good.

Maybe we should be giving MANPADS to our BP agents instead of jihadis in Syria and Iraq?

[dogmush]

Wars have begun that way, Mr Ambassador.

[Balog]

I'm waiting for the veiled accusations that it's a racist smear campaign that didn't happen because there is no cell phone video of it, posed in classic 9/11 troofer "I'm just asking questions" style.

[MillCreek]

Noting the time (2400-0600) and location of the incursion, I wonder how visible is the border at the time and location.  Is it well-lit and visible from the air as something you can distinguish as the border?  I know from watching news footage that some areas of the southern border look like the Berlin Wall, while other parts are an unlit dirt road with a fence.

[zxcvbob]

What would Israel do?

(I assume an immediate-but-limited air strike in Mexico, to destroy at least one very expensive 'copter.)

[SADShooter]

With the minimal detail provided, I'm curious if this is the standard Mexican ROE, firing without challenge, target illumination or ID? I'm also imagining the reactions if the roles were reversed.

[RocketMan]

Millcreek, that is why God made GPS.  They should have been well aware of where they were.
Of course, it is the Mexican Air Force, or Federales, or whatever.  Maybe their helicopter wasn't all that well equipped.

[zxcvbob]

Or they were providing cover for a nearby drug smuggler.

[lupinus]

Millcreek, that is why God made GPS.  They should have been well aware of where they were.
Of course, it is the Mexican Air Force, or Federales, or whatever.  Maybe their helicopter wasn't all that well equipped.

Or they just didn't give a flying fluff

[dogmush]

Noting the time (2400-0600) and location of the incursion, I wonder how visible is the border at the time and location.  Is it well-lit and visible from the air as something you can distinguish as the border?  I know from watching news footage that some areas of the southern border look like the Berlin Wall, while other parts are an unlit dirt road with a fence.

It is all but invisible.  So what?  That's why you have to be sure of where you are when you wear a uniform and carry a gun.  I spent much of the last year tooling around the Persian Gulf.  The Border there doesn't exist.  It's all water.  I can guarantee that Iran would not take that excuse if I crossed into their waters and popped off a few rounds.  Similarly I've taken a military vessel into Guantanamo.  Do you think Cuba would care that navigation was hard if I popped a couple rounds off at their patrol boats?

Now should we start a shooting war the first time a neighbor mistakenly invades? No. Probably not.  But I'd like to see some force concessions that are steep enough the Mexican Fed.Gov makes sure their pilots can read a GPS.  If we start to see a pattern of careless incursions, some more lethal border protection would be warranted.

As we found out with U2's crossing borders is, or should be, dangerous.  That encourages the crossers to be thoughtful about it.

Lastly, whatever we decide to do about illegal immigration and drug smuggling, we should publically end the farce that the Mexican government is our ally in either.

[RocketMan]

Or they just didn't give a flying fluff

Entirely possible.  They might have even been doing someone a favor.

[Balog]

Noting the time (2400-0600) and location of the incursion, I wonder how visible is the border at the time and location.  Is it well-lit and visible from the air as something you can distinguish as the border?  I know from watching news footage that some areas of the southern border look like the Berlin Wall, while other parts are an unlit dirt road with a fence.

The area this occured has a number of highly visible landmarks (well lit border station and large peak), there was perfect visibility, and they obviously have GPS.

[MillCreek]

You know, I completely forgot about GPS.  I was thinking about a former neighbor of mine who retired as a Chief Warrant after flying UH-1 and OH-58 copters for years.  He had some great stories about flying around at night trying to figure out where the hell he was.  He always said that for him, IFR meant 'I follow roads', and that is why he loved flying in Germany following the Autobahn.

[KD5NRH]

Lastly, whatever we decide to do about illegal immigration and drug smuggling, we should publically end the farce that the Mexican government is our ally in either.

Exactly.  And given how many third world revolutionaries have firepower capable of taking down a helicopter, I don't think arming our border patrol similarly is too extreme.  At least get them up the the level of the typical urban police department.

Waiting for them to try something like that with one of Texas' "shallow water interceptor" boats.  Should be interesting to see how many M240s it takes to down a Mexican military chopper.

[Jocassee]

I'm waiting for the veiled accusations that it's a racist smear campaign that didn't happen because there is no cell phone video of it, posed in classic 9/11 troofer "I'm just asking questions" style.

I Question the Timing!

[RoadKingLarry]

HAs Holder's DOJ began prosecution persecution of the BP agents yet?

[Hawkmoon]

Or they were providing cover for a nearby drug smuggler.

DING!

I think we have a winner!

[Ron]

What about militarizing the border?

Require House/Senate re approval every year so the people still can tell the .mil to stand down.

It does look more and more like a slow speed invasion every day.

I want Mexican military drug runners to understand what it is like to be on the other end of overwhelming force.

[Chuck Dye]

I think it would be nice to read of immediate and effective return fire, but...

News 'copters will have to have large lighted signs to avoid being fired on...

Mexicans will quickly adopt such signs as camouflage...

and the arms race will be on.

Shall we now consider the real and imaginary possibilities of conquest and 31 new states?

[zxcvbob]

I think it would be nice to read of immediate and effective return fire, but...

News 'copters will have to have large lighted signs to avoid being fired on...

Mexicans will quickly adopt such signs as camouflage...

and the arms race will be on.

Shall we now consider the real and imaginary possibilities of conquest and 31 new states?

Immediate would be nice (especially cuz it happens on our side of the border that way) but not necessary.  Don't we have assorted rangers and CIA soldiers (don't know what they are called) that could covertly blow up a helicopter base?  We even get plausible deniability that way.  Or just send a fighter in and do it boldly and spectacularly.

The whole world thinks we're pussies.

[RoadKingLarry]

Shall we now consider the real and imaginary possibilities of conquest and 31 new states?

Let's see, Mexico's population is somewhere around 113 million.
Approx 45%+ of Mexican population lives in poverty.
What would be the predicted effect of adding 53 or so million+ to US welfare rolls over night?

[Blakenzy]

Early this morning, a Mexican law enforcement helicopter crossed approximately 100 yards north into Arizona nearly 8 miles southwest of the Village of San Miguel on the Tohono O'odham Indian Nation while on a drug interdiction operation near the border. Two shots were fired from the helicopter but no injuries or damage to US property were reported. The incident is currently under investigation.

*yawn*

[Chuck Dye]

Let's see, Mexico's population is somewhere around 113 million.
Approx 45%+ of Mexican population lives in poverty.
What would be the predicted effect of adding 53 or so million+ to US welfare rolls over night?

Valid objections, especially for the short run, though the Germans seem to be managing reintegration well enough.  A common language and rather different economic and crime scenes no doubt make the German situation very different, but the failure to control immigration may well be the flame slowly warming the frog's pot.

[Hawkmoon]

Let's see, Mexico's population is somewhere around 113 million.
Approx 45%+ of Mexican population lives in poverty.

What percentage of Mexico's population lives in the United States ... illegally?

You know how pervasive it is? I'm sure most of you know that you can send money pretty much anywhere in the world by Western Union. My supermarket does it at the courtesy desk, and I have used the service to send money to Europe.

For Mexico, there's a different, dedicated form -- "Dinero en Minutos" (money in minutes). They have so many Mexicans sucking money out of our economy and sending it south of the border that they created a separate process and form just to cater to them.

[roo_ster]

What percentage of Mexico's population lives in the United States ... illegally?

You know how pervasive it is? I'm sure most of you know that you can send money pretty much anywhere in the world by Western Union. My supermarket does it at the courtesy desk, and I have used the service to send money to Europe.

For Mexico, there's a different, dedicated form -- "Dinero en Minutos" (money in minutes). They have so many Mexicans sucking money out of our economy and sending it south of the border that they created a separate process and form just to cater to them.

10pct or more.

We are their welfare system and medical system fir the poor.