Mars Hill church in turmoil

[zxcvbob]

The Catholic church does have some pretty bad heresies.  I've also known some Catholics (laypeople) who I know are Christians.  I've heard several priests that I'm pretty sure are Christians.

[lee n. field]

You mean it was the RCC admitting that their church was heretical?

no.

[MillCreek]

http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/blog/2014/10/seattle-megachurch-mars-hill-to-disband-amid.html?ana=e_sea_bn_breakingnews&u=G/vun7sJocZR54r4qTedGQ00c85a73&t=1414793231

This just in: Mars Hill is dissolving, at least as a single church with multiple locations. 

[lee n. field]

http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/blog/2014/10/seattle-megachurch-mars-hill-to-disband-amid.html?ana=e_sea_bn_breakingnews&u=G/vun7sJocZR54r4qTedGQ00c85a73&t=1414793231

This just in: Mars Hill is dissolving, at least as a single church with multiple locations. 

Interesting.   And probably a good idea.  I knew at least one of the franchise locations got cut loose earlier, and decided to go it on their own.

rather than remaining a centralized multi-site church with video-led teaching distributed to multiple locations, the best future for each of our existing local churches is for them to become autonomous self-governed entities,"

[Balog]

I didn't see that coming.

[MillCreek]

I didn't see that coming.

My friends who attend a couple of the branches on the Eastside have told me that attendance and tithing have been dropping like a stone in recent weeks, and this was the Board's idea to try and keep some of the branches afloat.  It is expected that some of the branches will not have sufficient attendance and finances to remain going concerns.

[lee n. field]

http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics/2014/10/31/mars-hill-will-dissolve-into-individual-self-governed-churches/

The Bruskas letter outlined a transformation due to be in place by the beginning of 2015. It said:

–”All of Mars Hill’s existing church properties will either be sold or the loans on the individual properties will be assumed by the independent church.”  The lenders, of course, must agree.

–”All central staff will be compensated for their work and then released from their employment.”

–”If any funds remain after the winding down and satisfaction of Mars Hill business affairs, they will be gifted as seed money to the newly independent churches.”

–”The existing Mars Hill Church organization will be dissolved.”

As well, Driscoll pledged to “reset my life” and cease making provocative statements on his Twitter account. Driscoll told the faithful that his “angry young prophet days are over to be replaced by a Bible-teaching spiritual father.”

Uhhh.  Well. 

Driscoll has espoused a stern Calvinism, preached male dominance in the family and condemned homosexuality. ... “If you are not a Christian, you are going to Hell. It’s not unloving to say that.”

Oh, Teh Horrors.   

[Unisaw]

Maybe it will be easier to find a parking space at the Bellevue Barnes & Noble.

But seriously, I find the whole thing to be quite sad but not all that surprising.

[MillCreek]

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/evangelical-leaders-give-fallen-mars-hill-pastor-mark-driscoll-a-new-forum/

Mr. Driscoll is preaching again.  I would not be surprised if he starts another church, probably in a more conservative area than Seattle and away from all the lawsuits and memories here.  Texas or someplace else in the South would be a good fit for him.

[lee n. field]

Saw that.  Not unexpected.  Does he know how to do anything else?

[roo_ster]

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/evangelical-leaders-give-fallen-mars-hill-pastor-mark-driscoll-a-new-forum/

Mr. Driscoll is preaching again.  I would not be surprised if he starts another church, probably in a more conservative area than Seattle and away from all the lawsuits and memories here.  Texas or someplace else in the South would be a good fit for him.

Dudes problem was not excessive theological conservatism.  Also he had little difficulty attracting lots of folk in seattle willing to buy what he was selling.  Enough so that he set up a sorta franchise system.

[Perd Hapley]

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/evangelical-leaders-give-fallen-mars-hill-pastor-mark-driscoll-a-new-forum/

Mr. Driscoll is preaching again.  I would not be surprised if he starts another church, probably in a more conservative area than Seattle and away from all the lawsuits and memories here.  Texas or someplace else in the South would be a good fit for him.

It looks like he is accused of fraudulent mismanagement of funds, and being mean to people. I didn't know those qualities were in demand down south.

[Balog]

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/evangelical-leaders-give-fallen-mars-hill-pastor-mark-driscoll-a-new-forum/

Mr. Driscoll is preaching again.  I would not be surprised if he starts another church, probably in a more conservative area than Seattle and away from all the lawsuits and memories here.  Texas or someplace else in the South would be a good fit for him.

That's pretty unbalanced and vindictive even for a Seattle Times hit piece.

[KD5NRH]

It looks like he is accused of fraudulent mismanagement of funds, and being mean to people. I didn't know those qualities were in demand down south.

Never been to Atlanta, New Orleans or Houston, I see.

[Perd Hapley]

Well, I've been to Houston, but I try not to think about it. 

[SADShooter]

It looks like he is accused of fraudulent mismanagement of funds, and being mean to people. I didn't know those qualities were in demand down south.

I'd say we've achieved market saturation...

[lee n. field]

Dudes problem was not excessive theological conservatism.  Also he had little difficulty attracting lots of folk in seattle willing to buy what he was selling.  Enough so that he set up a sorta franchise system.

Dude's problem is not with his theology.  And the problem is not entirely his.  Driscoll built up a profitable "brand", and had a lot of people covering for him when problems did start to become overt.  Google up "evangelical industrial complex".

He needs to just go do something else for a while, or forever.

[roo_ster]

Dude's problem is not with his theology.  And the problem is not entirely his.  Driscoll built up a profitable "brand", and had a lot of people covering for him when problems did start to become overt.  Google up "evangelical industrial complex".

He needs to just go do something else for a while, or forever.

His theology is suspect, IMO.  For the most part, no more so than any other non-denom megachurch cult of personality.    But Driscoll also screws the theological pooch in his own Very Special Way.

Very much agree he needs to take up another career. 

[Balog]

His theology is suspect, IMO.  For the most part, no more so than any other non-denom megachurch cult of personality.    But Driscoll also screws the theological pooch in his own Very Special Way.

Very much agree he needs to take up another career. 

What, specifically, do you find objectionable in his theology?

[roo_ster]

What, specifically, do you find objectionable in his theology?

Non-Denom Megachurchian Cult of Personality
1. Claims of extra-Biblical inspiration.  AKA, "vision casting leadership."  The CoP is not fulfilling the role of pastor/shepherd, but is claiming extra-Biblical prophetic power/vision.
2. Insufficiency of the Bible.  This is a logical destination from #1.
3. www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xxgRUyzgs0
4. Freakishly out of context readings of verses, many times twisting them into the opposite of their meaning. These can be so outlandish as to cause one to wonder, "Does no one present have a Bible and the ability to read it?"
5. No accountability when CoP goes off the rails.
6. I could go on in the ways megachurchian cults of personality are ate up like a soup sandwich theologically, but there is only so much time in the day.



Driscoll-Particular
1. Craven, repackaged feminism in jeans and pseudo-tough guy talk.  What a weasel in need of a beating.
2. Used the Song of Solomon to convince his wife to give him oral sex when she objected...and then subjected his worshipers parishioners attendees to a sermon on the topic.  This would be abuse of his pastoral office at the very least.
3. Church governance at odds with Biblical model.


Just because slimeball SJW leftists don't like a guy does not necessarily mean he is a good guy.  It just might be "pray for an asteroid" time.

[Balog]

Lol. Have you ever actually listened to any of the sermons you're referring to? 1-6 are non-applicable generalizations, and #2 under specific is patently false.

[Boomhauer]

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/evangelical-leaders-give-fallen-mars-hill-pastor-mark-driscoll-a-new-forum/

Mr. Driscoll is preaching again.  I would not be surprised if he starts another church, probably in a more conservative area than Seattle and away from all the lawsuits and memories here.  Texas or someplace else in the South would be a good fit for him.

We've already got a multi-location controversial megachurch with an "interesting" leader covering the state. Don't need another one...

[roo_ster]

Lol. Have you ever actually listened to any of the sermons you're referring to? 1-6 are non-applicable generalizations, and #2 under specific is patently false.

One through six apply.  I found examples of driscoll exhibiting each. Driscoll megachurch cult of personality is megachurchy and culty.

I prefer to read the transcripts than to watch the fool on youtube.  I am more able to concentrate on content than the inflamed sphincter of his personality and give him some benefit of doubt that way.  I read his greatest hits and then a few not so infamous for some balance.  Did not want to be on the same side as the liberal squishes. 

The man has no business running a church.  He is theelogically unsound, self aggrandizing, and temperamentally unsuited to leadership.

[lee n. field]

temperamentally unsuited to leadership.

Or, by modern standards, very suited to leadership.

[Perd Hapley]

I just spent several minutes reading some of the theological discussion in this thread, on the Trinity, etc. A good re-read.

I tend to think of the doctrine of predestination vs free will like the Trinity: we can sort of analogize it but can't really grok it properly. Sort of a Deut 29:29 thing.

Yup.

A theory I often indulge is that some Christians fare better with a free-will point of view, where they feel more pressure to conform their free will to God's will. And I think some Christians, under the same teaching, would be racked with guilt, and w/o any peace or faith in God's ability to save them from their own corrupt natures. Or, they might be too tempted to pat themselves on the back for having chosen God's salvation. The latter two types may fare better w/ a more predestinarian understanding. And it may be that God allows us to find the church or doctrine that most helps us stay in the faith. So goes the theory.