Author Topic: Mr. Fusion Is Here!  (Read 2828 times)

roo_ster

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Mr. Fusion Is Here!
« on: October 15, 2014, 12:49:03 PM »
http://aviationweek.com/technology/skunk-works-reveals-compact-fusion-reactor-details

Quote
Hidden away in the secret depths of the Skunk Works, a Lockheed Martin research team has been working quietly on a nuclear energy concept they believe has the potential to meet, if not eventually decrease, the world’s insatiable demand for power.

Dubbed the compact fusion reactor (CFR), the device is conceptually safer, cleaner and more powerful than much larger, current nuclear systems that rely on fission, the process of splitting atoms to release energy. Crucially, by being “compact,” Lockheed believes its scalable concept will also be small and practical enough for applications ranging from interplanetary spacecraft and commercial ships to city power stations. It may even revive the concept of large, nuclear-powered aircraft that virtually never require refueling—ideas of which were largely abandoned more than 50 years ago because of the dangers and complexities involved with nuclear fission reactors.

I want my nuclear bombers to be nuclear powered, dammit!


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AJ Dual

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Re: Mr. Fusion Is Here!
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2014, 12:59:51 PM »
Considering how much time and money has been thrown at compact nuclear power plants for subs and satellites (the kind you don't want big reflective solar panels on...) and then alternatives to fission for these systems, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess our undeclared capabilities in this area might surprise people greatly. :D

And "Son of Cold Fusion" or LENR's (Low Energy Nuclear Reactors) just never seems to die.

http://scitation.aip.org/content/aip/magazine/physicstoday/news/10.1063/PT.4.2409

There's finally some leaks in the "nothing's peer reviewed" dam going on.

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Tallpine

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Re: Mr. Fusion Is Here!
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2014, 01:34:41 PM »
http://aviationweek.com/technology/skunk-works-reveals-compact-fusion-reactor-details

I want my nuclear bombers to be nuclear powered, dammit!




Or any large aircraft: nuclear generator to power electric "turbo-fans"  :cool:

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HankB

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Re: Mr. Fusion Is Here!
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2014, 01:39:47 PM »
Fusion power is only 30 years away.

As it has been since 1960.
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Sergeant Bob

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Re: Mr. Fusion Is Here!
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2014, 02:10:14 PM »
Fusion power is only 30 years away.

As it has been since 1960.

There's someone who hasn't seen Back to the Future II!
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

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AJ Dual

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Re: Mr. Fusion Is Here!
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2014, 02:29:32 PM »
Unless they're using some of the more exotic fusion formulas, (Mining residual solar wind He3 from the moondust?) Free Mean Path, and/or Attenuation Length are going to mean you don't want to sit too close to one of these, or have one between your legs on a fusion powered motorcycle any time soon.

Plus neutron activation of some of the reactor structures is going to be a problem eventually. Although it's trivial as compared to fission waste.

A complete WAG I admit, but there's people chasing fusion from so many angles and with different schemes now, I have a gut feeling the odds are looking good one will pay off.

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Hawkmoon

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Re: Mr. Fusion Is Here!
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2014, 03:12:39 PM »
If they can make it small enough, it could give an entire new meaning to the term "nuclear family."
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charby

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Re: Mr. Fusion Is Here!
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2014, 03:18:31 PM »
If they can make it small enough, it could give an entire new meaning to the term "nuclear family."

Full cycle back to the farm electrical power units, instead of gasoline it is nuclear!

Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

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Boomhauer

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Re: Mr. Fusion Is Here!
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2014, 08:50:24 PM »
"And the heads of many enviro-hippies exploded at the prospect of nuclear power, nuclear power everywhere!"...and the surviving ones cried themselves to sleep with "well we still have wind farms and solar"






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Triphammer

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Re: Mr. Fusion Is Here!
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2014, 09:10:04 PM »
Somewhere in the deep recesses of my memory, I remember reading about a "tiny' nuclear power source. It looked like a football about 4 feet long an 2 or 3 feet tall. There were a pair of terminals to attach your load to and it was claim it would produce 3kW DC for years. Was supposed to weigh a couple 3 hundred pounds with no moving parts. It was in "Popular Science/ Pop Mechanics" in the mid 60's then disappeared. Anybody ever hear about these or did my fevered pre-teen brain remember something completely wrong?
 

AJ Dual

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Re: Mr. Fusion Is Here!
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2014, 09:47:26 PM »
Somewhere in the deep recesses of my memory, I remember reading about a "tiny' nuclear power source. It looked like a football about 4 feet long an 2 or 3 feet tall. There were a pair of terminals to attach your load to and it was claim it would produce 3kW DC for years. Was supposed to weigh a couple 3 hundred pounds with no moving parts. It was in "Popular Science/ Pop Mechanics" in the mid 60's then disappeared. Anybody ever hear about these or did my fevered pre-teen brain remember something completely wrong?
 

Unlikely, or just speculation on the part of  the writer that denies basic physics.

If it produced 3kW of electricity, no conversion process is perfect, or even close to 100% efficient so that means some part of such a "football sized nuclear power supply" would have to be making more than  3kW  of HEAT.

That's kinda spicy.

The RTG's of space probes are actually smaller than this,  and use the heat of decaying Plutonium to drive thermocouples with a cold side against space, but they make nowhere near 3kW.

The Curiosity rover's plutonium dioxide pellet(s?) was glowing red hot at about 2kW of thermal power at launch, but it only produces something less than 125W of DC. And being on Mars nobody gives a damn about shielding beyond protecting the insturments from interference.

And that's with whatever extra efficiency the -100F or whatever the Martian temp is gives the thermoelectric cells in heat differential.

There are betatovic power supplies that create electricity directly from nuclear decay, they somehow capture the high velocity electrons (beta particles) from tritium decay, but they're nowhere near that kind of electric output.

IIRC they were used as experimental pacemaker batteries for a time. :tinfoil:



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MechAg94

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Re: Mr. Fusion Is Here!
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2014, 10:10:38 PM »
So you are saying we are killing the Martians.  They ae going to be pissed.  Better make sure you have a Slim Whitman CD handy. 
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Sergeant Bob

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Re: Mr. Fusion Is Here!
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2014, 10:24:09 PM »
So you are saying we are killing the Martians.  They are going to be pissed.  Better make sure you have a Slim Whitman CD handy. 

Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

I already have canned butter, buying more. Canned blueberries, some pancake making dry goods and the end of the world is gonna be delicious.  -French G

never_retreat

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Re: Mr. Fusion Is Here!
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2014, 11:44:10 PM »
We tried the small thing a couple of times.
PM-2A was run by the army in Greenland
PM-3A was run by the navy and Mcmurdo station.
I think these were the only 2 small reactors that saw use more than testing.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Mr. Fusion Is Here!
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2014, 06:51:09 AM »
The Soviet Union had truckmobile nuclear power plants since the 1960s.

TES-3 and Pamir, they were called. I posted pictures of them in this forum.

The antinuclear hysteria killed Pamir after the first few plants were made.
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Ron

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Re: Mr. Fusion Is Here!
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2014, 03:26:00 PM »
In other news the E-Cat supposedly passed a third party verification. They won't call it cold fusion but it generated more heat than power it took to start it up.

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/191754-cold-fusion-reactor-verified-by-third-party-researchers-seems-to-have-1-million-times-the-energy-density-of-gasoline

Isn't there anyone around here that can calm the irrational exuberance about fusion?  :laugh:




edited for accuracy
« Last Edit: October 16, 2014, 05:35:16 PM by Ron »
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bedlamite

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Re: Mr. Fusion Is Here!
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2014, 03:33:24 PM »
Isn't there anyone around here that can calm the irrational exuberance about fusion?  :laugh:

Yeah, I figured birdman would be here by now.
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AJ Dual

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Re: Mr. Fusion Is Here!
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2014, 04:00:14 PM »
In other news the E-Cat supposedly passed a third party verification. They won't call it cold fusion but it generated more power than it took to start it up.

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/191754-cold-fusion-reactor-verified-by-third-party-researchers-seems-to-have-1-million-times-the-energy-density-of-gasoline

Isn't there anyone around here that can calm the irrational exuberance about fusion?  :laugh:

Yeah... they're getting almost 4:1 output from it... if it's true. The additional third-party researchers "confirming" is a big hurdle. But that's not all the way there. There could be some sort of big glaring hole in their methodology or instrumentation they're missing. Although I kind of think 4:1 output, and the nickel coming out as a different isotope is kind of hard to fudge up.  ???

That said, there's been bigger "verified" scientific results than this that have proven to be complete bunk in history that have been "reproduced" and "accepted" by many institutions.

« Last Edit: October 16, 2014, 04:03:41 PM by AJ Dual »
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MillCreek

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Re: Mr. Fusion Is Here!
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2014, 04:13:04 PM »
An actual isotope shift!  Interesting!
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Tallpine

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Re: Mr. Fusion Is Here!
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2014, 04:28:57 PM »
Isn't there anyone around here that can calm the irrational exuberance about fusion?  :laugh:

There seems to be a proFusion of conFusion  =)
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AJ Dual

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Re: Mr. Fusion Is Here!
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2014, 04:48:48 PM »
An actual isotope shift!  Interesting!

Yah... and THAT is what's giving me gooseflesh when I read it. More than the heat output.

Quote
The unused fuel shows the natural isotope composition from both SIMS and ICP-MS, i.e.
58Ni (68.1%), 60Ni (26.2%), 61Ni (1.1%), 62Ni (3.6%), and 64Ni (0.9%),

whereas the ash composition from
SIMS is: 58Ni (0.8.%), 60Ni (0.5%), 61Ni (0%), 62Ni (98.7%), 64Ni (0%), and from ICP-MS: 58Ni (0.8%), 60Ni
(0.3%), 61Ni (0%), 62Ni (99.3%), 64Ni (0%). We note that the SIMS and ICP-MS give the same values within
the estimated 3% error in the given percentages.

I can't fathom any simple mechanism of heat or chemistry, or electron shells causing nuclear isotopic changes in a metal.  [tinfoil]
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Mr. Fusion Is Here!
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2014, 05:18:16 PM »
No Eludium Q36? Where's the Eludium Q36!?

Brad
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Re: Re: Re: Mr. Fusion Is Here!
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2014, 05:19:23 PM »
Yah... and THAT is what's giving me gooseflesh when I read it. More than the heat output.

I can't fathom any simple mechanism of heat or chemistry, or electron shells causing nuclear isotopic changes in a metal.  [tinfoil]
Eh. Go back a few hundred years and no one would conceive of a lot of our technology, particularly beyond the theories or in their most basic forms or how to take them from theory to practical application.
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birdman

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Re: Mr. Fusion Is Here!
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2014, 04:38:50 PM »
In other news the E-Cat supposedly passed a third party verification. They won't call it cold fusion but it generated more heat than power it took to start it up.

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/191754-cold-fusion-reactor-verified-by-third-party-researchers-seems-to-have-1-million-times-the-energy-density-of-gasoline

Isn't there anyone around here that can calm the irrational exuberance about fusion?  :laugh:

edited for accuracy

Doesn't work.  The fact no one has done the obvious experiment with it yet (insulated self-contained power source in a vacuum isolated container to measure heat production) screams fraud.
Also, "verification" is the same BS methods as before but now with more pseudo-precision.
Also, how does the excess heat get out of the 1g of powder to the container without vaporizing the powder...given that its MW/kg supposedly...that powder should be heated beyond its boiling point...yet it still comes out as powder...not a thin sheen on the inside of the tube...meaning all the energy goes into container...further BS.
Also, its CLAIMED BEST CASE 4:1 is heat out to electricity in.
Think about that for a moment.
I put 1000J of electricity in, and get 4000J of heat out...so, now I put it into a heat engine of maybe 35-40% efficiency, get 1600J electricity out, put 1000J back in and I am left with a net of 600J.
So even if it works, its crap. As even their "theoretical" is halfway on the edge of requiring more electricity than it makes.

Further more:
The electricity is turned into heat inside the device (resistance in a wire), NOTHING MORE, they don't even IMPLY its used for anything else (like some weird electrochemical BS since the current goes through a solution a la P&F  As such...would it be self-sustaining?  Why is further electricity needed? 

Total. BS.

HankB

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Re: Mr. Fusion Is Here!
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2014, 06:09:51 PM »
"Verification" . . . right.

Some years back, a guy in MN had a "more than 100% efficient" furnace based on extracting heat from circulating hydraulic fluid. Professors at U of MN measured energy input, airflow, input and output temperatures, and shook their heads in amazement . . . it DID seem to be verified as being strikingly efficient.

Until someone noticed that they were measuring input and output air temperatures in degrees Centigrade rather than degrees Kelvin, at which point their sense of amazement turned to a sense of embarassment . . .
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