The new Pope

[Stand_watie]

It's probably somewhat unfair of me to even offer a comparison, as I'm not Catholic (I'm protestant) and haven't read the writings of either of the men, other than blurbs in popular media, but I think I like the new guy better..he seems a little less stodgy, and a little more charismatic than is traditional.

Even day to day workings of the vatican seem a little more contemporary to me (see below).. Not that I had anything against John Paul II, in fact in the last ten years of his life I was pleasantly surprised with him, but I think they got a really good 'un this time around.
***


The Vatican will make history this week when it releases a cartoon film about the life of Pope John Paul II.

Lasting just over an hour, it charts the life of the man born Karol Wojtyla, from his humble beginnings in Poland to his death last year aged 84. John Paul II - The Friend Of All Humanity is the first cartoon account of a Pope's life.

It was made by Cavin Cooper, a firm based in Barcelona, and is directed by esteemed producer Jose Luis Lopez-Guardia.

"It is a fascinating story that works well as a cartoon,' he said. The Vatican has given its 'full backing' to the film, which has been dubbed into seven languages. Last night a source said it had been felt a cartoon 'would appeal to all'

[Perd Hapley]

he seems a little less stodgy, and a little more charismatic than is traditional.

I thought Pope John Paul the Twoth was already perceived as being un-stodgy.  And can you get more charismatic than JPII?  

But what's unfair about opining on the Pope?  It's not like you're down on the guy.

[Stand_watie]

he seems a little less stodgy, and a little more charismatic than is traditional.

I thought Pope John Paul the Twoth was already perceived as being un-stodgy.  And can you get more charismatic than JPII?  

But what's unfair about opining on the Pope?  It's not like you're down on the guy.

Perhaps 'unfair' was the wrong word - I was just sort of disqualifying myself as having a particularly well-informed opinion, as I know nothing about Catholic church workings other than what is in the news.

[Preacherman]

I cracked up laughing at a Protestant friend (good guy, not anti-Catholic) who, when the Austin Powers movies came out, began referring to the Pope as "God's Mini-Me".

[CAnnoneer]

It is amazing to me that so many people across the world attach so much meaning/significance to who/what some frocked oldfart in Rome is.

[BakerMikeRomeo]

It is amazing to me that so many people across the world attach so much meaning/significance to who/what some frocked oldfart in Rome is.

It is amazing to me that so many people across the country attach so much meaning/significance to who/what some business-suited old fart in the White House is.

Just as the President is a Big Freaking Deal for the United States, the Pope is a Big Freaking Deal for Catholicism. There's nothing especially amazing about it.

~GnSx

[Perd Hapley]

CAnny, there's no need for that kind of talk.  Unless you seek to offend nice people without sufficient reason.

Edit:  I'm not especially impressed by Pope's either, but I do try to be charitable to those who are.

[gunsmith]

We have lost our sense of sin!
Today a slick campaign of propaganda
Is spreading an inane apologia of evil,
A senseless cult of Satan,
A mindless desire for transgression,
A dishonest and frivolous freedom,
Exalting impulsiveness, immorality and selfishness
As if they were new heights of sophistication.

Lord Jesus,
Open our eyes:
Let us see the filth around us
And recognize it for what it is,
So that a single tear of sorrow
Can restore us to purity of heart
And the breadth of true freedom.
Open our eyes, Lord, Jesus!

Surely God is deeply pained
By the attack on the family.
Today we seem to be witnessing
A kind of anti-Genesis,
A counter-plan, a diabolical pride
Aimed at eliminating the family.

There is a move to reinvent mankind,
To modify the very grammar of life
As planned and willed by God.

But, to take Gods place, without being God,
Is insane arrogance,
A risky and dangerous venture.

May Christs fall open our eyes
To see once more the beautiful face,
The true face, the holy face of the family.
The face of the family
which all of us need.

Lord Jesus,
Purity has everywhere fallen victim
To a calculated conspiracy of silence: an impure silence!
People have even come to believe
A complete lie:
That purity is somehow the enemy of love.

But the opposite is true, O Lord!
Purity is necessary
As a condition for love:
A love that is true, a love that is faithful.

In any event, Lord,
If we cannot be the master of ourselves?
How can we give ourselves to others?

Everything seems over,
The wicked seem to triumph,
And evil appears more powerful than good.

But faith enables us to see afar,
it makes us glimpse the break of a new day
On the other side of this day.
Faith promises us that the final word
belongs to God: to God alone!

[Stand_watie]

It is amazing to me that so many people across the world attach so much meaning/significance to who/what some frocked oldfart in Rome is.

It is amazing to me that so many people across the country attach so much meaning/significance to who/what some business-suited old fart in the White House is.

Just as the President is a Big Freaking Deal for the United States, the Pope is a Big Freaking Deal for Catholicism. There's nothing especially amazing about it.

~GnSx

There's both current and  historical importance of the office - for 1,000 years of history, the pope was (for right or for wrong) the kingmaker of Christendom, and even today represents xy (let's say for example 35%)  of the Christian Church.

One way conservative American protestants might look at it is that the pope is Billy Graham to Catholics.

[cosine]

CAnny, there's no need for that kind of talk.  Unless you seek to offend nice people without sufficient reason.

Don't worry. After a while remarks like the one CAnnoneer made roll off you like water off of a duck.

[The Rabbi]

There is no denying that the Pope plays a major role in world affairs.  Look at JPII's role in overthrowing communism in Poland and E.Europe.  I havent seen enough to form an opinion of this pope.

[Perd Hapley]

One way conservative American protestants might look at it is that the pope is Billy Graham to Catholics.

I'm sorry, I don't think Graham comes anywhere close to being papal.  Unless you mean in the sense of being widely respected.

[Stand_watie]

One way conservative American protestants might look at it is that the pope is Billy Graham to Catholics.

I'm sorry, I don't think Graham comes anywhere close to being papal.  Unless you mean in the sense of being widely respected.

That's exactly what I mean.

Ask Christians and non-Christians alike to name a name of American protestant Christians that denotes respect, and Graham will probably be at the top of your list.

That's not to say that his opinions are agreed upon by all, just that he is at the top of a very short list (embarassingly short) of well-known American evangelicals who are widely respected outside their own religious community.

The fact is I can agree with Pat Robertson, Jerry Fallwell, and even Jim Baker all day long (and I do on most things), but they're not widely respected, and for good reason - they opened their mouths when they should have kept shtu'um.

As an example - Billy Graham would never do this, but imagine if he did - If he were to state before the next Presidential election, candidate "A" is the only right choice for Christians, the vast majority of evangelical protestant Christians would vote for candidate "A".

[Perd Hapley]

As an example - Billy Graham would never do this, but imagine if he did - If he were to state before the next Presidential election, candidate "A" is the only right choice for Christians, the vast majority of evangelical protestant Christians would vote for candidate "A".

Many of my fellow conservative Christians are rather easily-led, but it's not that easy.  If you don't think the "values" issues are deeply felt by them, you'd be wrong.  You're not seriously proposing that the religious right would have voted for Kerry with Graham's backing, are you?  I doubt the pope even has that kind of power.  Now if Graham got behind a conservative Republican, he could probably bring a lot of new voters to the polls - I'll give him that.  But you are correct in that Graham is probably the only widely-known and widely respected Protestant minister in America, perhaps in the world.  But I think that's because he doesn't get into politics.  He could have more influence among Christians if he did, but then the respect would go out the window.  

To me, it seems like Falwell and Robertson are old news.  Maybe I'm just not aware of their influence, but I think the left grants them more currency among the conservatives than they really have to spend anymore.  James Dobson is probably the biggest guy on the block, right now.  There's also Rick Warren, D. James Kennedy, Chuck Swindoll, T.D. Jakes,* Joyce Meyer, Hank Hanegraf, Richard Land, Phyllis Schlafly, although she maybe over, as well.


*Which is very odd, considering that Jakes is a bona fide heretic.  I.e., he denies the trinity.

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

I'm not Catholic but I always liked JP squared and I like Joey Rats.

The current COO seems like a really stand-up guy. I like the way he speaks his mind.


Regards,
Rabbit.

[CAnnoneer]

CAnny, there's no need for that kind of talk.  Unless you seek to offend nice people without sufficient reason.

I made an objective observation without seeking to offend. If people take offense, it should not be of me, but of reality.

POTUS and the pope are certainly not equivalent. One is the chief executive of arguably the most powerful state this planet has ever seen. The other has direct control only over a speck of a principality the size of one of our counties; any power of him is only in as much as believers attribute one to him. POTUS can drop nukes on you, the pope can send you a nicely worded piece of paper in a dead language.

[cosine]

POTUS and the pope are certainly not equivalent. One is the chief executive of arguably the most powerful state this planet has ever seen. The other has direct control only over a speck of a principality the size of one of our counties. POTUS can drop nukes on you, the pope can send you a nicely worded piece of paper in a dead language.

You're right. One is the head of a powerful temporal state that exists solely for the temporal well-being of its citizens, while the other is the head of an organization that exists solely for the eternal well-being of a billion people who align themselves with that organization, as well as the rest of the people in the world who do not.

No, the POTUS and the pope are certainly not equivalent. One is far greater and more important than the other.

[Perd Hapley]

I made an objective observation without seeking to offend.

Is that why you called the pope an old fart?  But I do agree that POTUS and the Pope are hard to compare.

[CAnnoneer]

Is that why you called the pope an old fart?

1) Is he not an oldfart?
2) "oldfart" is not equivalent to "old fart"

[CAnnoneer]

the other is the head of an organization that exists solely for the eternal well-being of a billion people

Read up on the real-world history of the church and the papacy. Any non-religious organization with their record would have been banned everywhere in the world a thousand times over.

[Perd Hapley]

Then what is an "oldfart"?

[cosine]

Edit: Nevermind. I swore off debating on the Internet a long time ago. All it is is a pain in the neck, and no one ever changes their mind anyway.

[The Rabbi]

Is that why you called the pope an old fart?

1) Is he not an oldfart?
2) "oldfart" is not equivalent to "old fart"

....

[CAnnoneer]

Then what is an "oldfart"?

Art, help me out here.

[oldfart]

"It is amazing to me that so many people across the world attach so much meaning/significance to who/what some frocked oldfart in Rome is."

HEY!!  Talk nice about oldfarts!