British Royal Guards moved behind the fences

[MillCreek]

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2014/12/29/iconic-royal-guards-moved-behind-gates-to-prevent-lone-wolf-attacks/

So this article does answer something I have always wondered about:

By contrast, the sentries carry unloaded rifles as a rule. Although they do carry six rounds of ammunition in a pouch in case of a terrorist attack, loading the rifles would take time. Their only other form of protection is the bayonet on the rifles, and a ceremonial sword which they also carry.

The magazines in the SA-80's are empty, which does not surprise me, but they do carry emergency rounds, which does.

[RevDisk]

Six rounds not being very helpful, and I'm doubting they are in a magazine.

Still, glad that they made even that concession to common sense. The US military often doesn't. Soldiers of course don't keep any hold-out ammo on their person. I always figured that was so the brass could crucify the soldiers in question if the PR went bad, look the other direction if the PR was fine.

[KD5NRH]

The magazines in the SA-80's are empty, which does not surprise me, but they do carry emergency rounds, which does.

Seems a bit silly that they even bother to carry modern rifles.  An Enfield with the bolt closed on a dummy round or blank over a full mag of live ammo would be faster into action than trying to stuff loose rounds into a detachable box mag, reinsert it and do anything useful.  A BP blank in the chamber would have the added benefit of being a clear "SHTF over here right now" indication without significant risk in case of a ND.

[vaskidmark]

The Royal Guards are there to make the royals feel like they are important, and to show the commoners where some of their tax money goes, as opposed to retaking Mandalay or Simla (Shimla) Outpost, or the bar at Raffles Hotel in Singapore.

Sadly, it has become a thing to see if you can get one of them to crack a smile or otherwise show expression.  OTOH, the Beefeaters are allowed (or at least not chastised) to yell at rowdy or otherwise misbehaving tourists and remind them that politeness/good manners is expected and that trangressors are liable to the same treatment today as they would have received "back then". 

I'm pretty sure the Tomb Guards do not have ammo available to them, but they still seem to be able to influence the distruptive.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mzTsCN7mNs 

As for putting the Royal Guard inside the fence and guarding them with armed bobbies - sad and pitiful.  I can just hear Queen Empress Victoria saying "We are not amused."

stay safe.

[Firethorn]

Seems a bit silly that they even bother to carry modern rifles.  An Enfield with the bolt closed on a dummy round or blank over a full mag of live ammo would be faster into action than trying to stuff loose rounds into a detachable box mag, reinsert it and do anything useful.  A BP blank in the chamber would have the added benefit of being a clear "SHTF over here right now" indication without significant risk in case of a ND.

I like.  Also, a battle rifle round will be useful on more targets as well as it'd be a rifle that 'most' terrorists and such wouldn't be able to use as well.  

[KD5NRH]

I like.  Also, a battle rifle round will be useful on more targets as well as it'd be a rifle that 'most' terrorists and such wouldn't be able to use as well.

Yup.  .303 AP is rough on vehicles too, and 180gr of steel cored bullet screaming along at ~3000fps doesn't need to expand to ruin your day at close range.  Plus, from a lightweight carbine with no recoil pad, that round really hurts at the back end too; that could result in surprise and delay for a bad guy trying to use the rifle.

[HankB]

Yup.  .303 AP is rough on vehicles too, and 180gr of steel cored bullet screaming along at ~3000fps . . .

What .303 round will put a 180 out at 3000fps?  That's up in .300 Mag territory, and I'm not aware of a .303 British round loaded anywhere that hot . . . I'd guess something down around 2400 ft/sec is closer to reality.

[K Frame]

Classic Mk VII used a 174 gr. Lead cored bullet at 2450 or so fps.

[KD5NRH]

What .303 round will put a 180 out at 3000fps?   That's up in .300 Mag territory, and I'm not aware of a .303 British round loaded anywhere that hot . . . I'd guess something down around 2400 ft/sec is closer to reality.

Guess I was thinking of the hot loads I used in .30-06.  Book max was around 2800fps, but some folks were experimenting hotter, so I kept going a little at a time.  Don't have my notes handy, but I was running out of room for H4831 in the case with no signs of overpressure in a 1917 Enfield action.  (Well, other than a purple shoulder after a day of testing.)

Checking Hodgdon's site for .303 180gr, I see a max of 2563 with 45gr of BL-C(2) or 2500 with a 48gr compressed load of 4350.  Still going to hit hard.

[brimic]

Why wouldn't the rifle be useable to trrists? The enfield rifles have been ubiquitous pretty much everywhere for over 100 years.

[41magsnub]

Why wouldn't the rifle be useable to trrists? The enfield rifles have been ubiquitous pretty much everywhere for over 100 years.

And - it's not exactly complicated to make one fire.

[Boomhauer]

Yup.  .303 AP is rough on vehicles too, and 180gr of steel cored bullet screaming along at ~3000fps doesn't need to expand to ruin your day at close range.  Plus, from a lightweight carbine with no recoil pad, that round really hurts at the back end too; that could result in surprise and delay for a bad guy trying to use the rifle.

Because the best thing to have in an crowded urban situation is an AP full power rifle round, so that you can punch through the shithead and several people behind him. Brilliant!

 
Also announcing the fact that your security forces are for all intents and purposes, unarmed, also completely *expletive deleted*ing brilliant.

This thread has really pegged the WTFometer for the day...

How about instead of "Drag out a bunch of SMLEs, load them with a bad idea and a high penetrating round, PERFECT for crowds", how about instead a simple, cheap, solution of "carry a loaded mag in a belt pouch" if the leadership is unwilling to have it in the rifle...

[HankB]

Because the best thing to have in an crowded urban situation is an AP full power rifle round, so that you can punch through the shithead and several people behind him. Brilliant!

Actually, some of the footage I've seen on TV recently - often backlit by the fires of burning businesses - suggests that's really not such a bad idea in some situations . . . 

[Andiron]

The world has gone completely mad when it's ok to carry a friggin' assault rifle,  but only if the mags are unloaded and you have only enough loose rnds in your pocket to load said mag to 20% of it's useful capacity.

WTF.  Seriously,  I have no words.  Why even have the rifle at all?

[Perd Hapley]

I was told that open carry of handguns, much less assault rifles, frightened and intimidated people. Shame on the Brits for being so rude to the passers-by.

[Sergeant Bob]

I was told that open carry of handguns, much less assault rifles, frightened and intimidated people. Shame on the Brits for being so rude to the passers-by.

At what point in time did the Brits become such a bunch of frakking pansies?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

It was after ww2 and before 2000


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[MechAg94]

If they can't have ammo, why not just give them pre-gun powder weapons?  People might wet themselves over edged weapons so maybe quarter staffs or maces.  At least make it something halfway effective. 

[Viking]

It was after ww2 and before 2000


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IIRC, until 1950-something, the average person could get a permit to carry a handgun in the UK.

[vaskidmark]

If they can't have ammo, why not just give them pre-gun powder weapons?  People might wet themselves over edged weapons so maybe quarter staffs or maces.  At least make it something halfway effective. 

Those Swiss Army Guards around the Pope?  About 20% of them at any time are dressed funny and carrying halberds - which are fantastic for crowd control as well as reaching out ant getting the attention of that loudmouth 5 or 6 rows back.  The rest of hem are roaming around in blazers and slacks with several varieties of what Sig has to offer.

There's rumors that the guys in funny clothes also have Sig pistols tucked away but that's one of those things that has never been confirmed nor denied.

stay safe.

[KD5NRH]

Those Swiss Army Guards around the Pope?  About 20% of them at any time are dressed funny and carrying halberds - which are fantastic for crowd control as well as reaching out ant getting the attention of that loudmouth 5 or 6 rows back.

I'd be willing to bet that, with the right practice, a halberd or ten against a small group of unarmored attackers in close quarters would be far more devastating than pistols.

I do wonder how much they drill with the halberds for actual combat use, though.

[vaskidmark]

It seems they receive annual refresher training in the use of "traditional" weapons, along with a bit more frequent training and practice with modern weaponry.

http://l-clausewitz.livejournal.com/369225.html  It's not just a pointy stick or a very thin ax on a long handle.  But generally speaking I'm thinking remembering what to do and how to do it would not completely deteriorate over 12 months.  (Well, that and "confidence" that there proably is some off-the-books horseplay.)

stay safe.

[KD5NRH]

It seems they receive annual refresher training in the use of "traditional" weapons, along with a bit more frequent training and practice with modern weaponry.

http://l-clausewitz.livejournal.com/369225.html  It's not just a pointy stick or a very thin ax on a long handle.  But generally speaking I'm thinking remembering what to do and how to do it would not completely deteriorate over 12 months.  (Well, that and "confidence" that there proably is some off-the-books horseplay.)

Looking at the size of the top spike on the ones they carry, I'm guessing it's most likely to be used like a boar spear; stick it in until the axe head is planted against the opponent's rib cage, then use it to control him to wherever you want to put him and/or hold him still while the next guard spindles and mutilates him more at leisure.

[T.O.M.]

First, is it just me, or does anyone else think the bullpup rifles look stupid in ceremonial use?  I would think the old Enfield bolt guns with bayonet fixed would be a better tool in hand for CQB, if actual gunfire wasn't an option.

Second, gotta go with Boomhauer, a loaded mag in a pouch would be a better idea than six loose rounds.  Again, an Enflied with a stripper clip would seem a better idea...

So, dig out some Enfields, polish them up, and issue them.

As for Arlington, I'd rather take on the uniformed rent-a-cop types than membera of the Old Guard...they tend to take that hallowed ground thing pretty seriously, and even an unsharpened bayonet is gonna hurt.

[Andiron]

As for Arlington, I'd rather take on the uniformed rent-a-cop types than membera of the Old Guard...they tend to take that hallowed ground thing pretty seriously, and even an unsharpened bayonet is gonna hurt.

Point always beats the edge.