Puppy size at five months - predictor for final growth?

[Stand_watie]

Well, the puppies are growing like weeds it seems. Heather made a comment this afternoon when we heard a hawk crying, worried that the smaller pup was small enough to fall prey to the hawk (one of our neighbors had some sort of little eight or ten lb lap dag fall prey to either a hawk or a hoot owl and that had her worried) so I dug out the bathroom scales and weighed them both to re-assure her that no flying raptor smaller than a large bald eagle or a pteradactyl would make off with either of them. The scales show at one week short of five months the pups are 32 (female) and 47 (male) lbs. One month ago they were 24 and 30 lbs. Both are as sweet as can be, but the little girl is as smart as a whip, and big beefy boy is as dumb as a box of rocks. She is as submissive as can be, but he has already started challenging any unknown adult male visitors, walking right up to them and baying at the top of his lungs as if he were a grown wolfhound rather than a mongrel pup.

They both still look like puppies, with oversized heads and feet, and the larger of the two still has puppy fur.

Anybody care to take a stab at guessing their final weight? Mother weighs about 70 lbs at 15 or 16 months (she's still quite skinny) and father (fathers?) is unknown.

I'm guessing the smaller will top out at least 50 or 60 lbs, and the larger will be closer to 100.

[Stand_watie]

O.K., here's the pictures.

Bowser tonight



and Zsa Zsa (remember Erica named her) tonight



and for comparitive purposes both of them at one day old (I have no idea which is which, but one of them is at the eight-forty-five o'clock position in the photo, and the other is at approximately the ten o'clock position. The only two black/white ones in the photo.

[meinbruder]

Hi Stand
What manner of beast is Mama-dog?  The pups look like they might be a Australian Cattle Dog cross, in which case the male should only top out at about seventy pounds and the female about fifty-five. (If that big.)  

A self-proclaimed expert on dogs, here in my neck of the woods, recently claimed that the Mama-dog would determine the size of the pups; none of them should be bigger than her.  A relative once had a huge Black Lab mix, 28in at the shoulder and about 120#s, which mated a Pit-Bull cross, 16in and about 40#s.  All the pups were smaller than Mama at maturity.  MAybe my expert is right.
Mike


}:)>

[Firethorn]

A self-proclaimed expert on dogs, here in my neck of the woods, recently claimed that the Mama-dog would determine the size of the pups; none of them should be bigger than her.  A relative once had a huge Black Lab mix, 28in at the shoulder and about 120#s, which mated a Pit-Bull cross, 16in and about 40#s.  All the pups were smaller than Mama at maturity.  MAybe my expert is right.
Mike

That doesn't necessarily make sense.  Otherwise over history the size of dogs would have dwindled to nothing.  Now yes, the size of the mother does make a big difference in the potential max size.  A smaller female will give birth to smaller pups that won't grow quite as large, but can still grow quite a bit larger than mom given the proper genetics and food.

On the other hand, given that Papa is so much smaller in that case, it would make sense.

And how the heck did he get up there?  Where there's a will there's a way, I guess.  

[meinbruder]

A self-proclaimed expert on dogs, here in my neck of the woods, recently claimed that the Mama-dog would determine the size of the pups; none of them should be bigger than her.  A relative once had a huge Black Lab mix, 28in at the shoulder and about 120#s, which mated a Pit-Bull cross, 16in and about 40#s.  All the pups were smaller than Mama at maturity.  Maybe my expert is right.
Mike

After reading that again, I decided it was rather vague.  Cowboy, the Lab male bred Killer the Pit female producing three pups the biggest of which was Christine who topped out at about twenty-five pounds. 

If overly large male breeds a very small female the puppys size could be fatal to the female, hence the pup will conform to what she can carry and deliver.  A very co-operative female will assist a male of any size.  I saw an article about a Chihuahua named Rocky and his very willing bride, a large Rotweiler.  The girl must have been splayed out like a pancake when the owners caught them in the act.  I would be very interested to see those puppies.   
Mike


}:)>

[Stand_watie]

Took them to the vet for rabies shots this weekend and Bowser at 4 1/2 months is 52 lbs. Ouch! lot's of puppy chow. Big old ginormous messes to clean up.