Author Topic: Geraldo weighs in  (Read 20656 times)

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Geraldo weighs in
« on: April 12, 2015, 03:26:54 AM »
And raises an interesting point. He calls it manslaughter
Whats south carolina law? How far into the process can they amend a charge?
And to play devils advocate did they overcharge to press for a plea? Or did they do it so as to facilitate an acquittal they can blame on a fickle jury or a judges interpretation of law.


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Geraldo weighs in
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2015, 03:47:03 AM »
And heres a lil piece on how lesser included charges can workout.
It gets complicated
http://groselawfirm.com/2014/03/blog/who-decides-whether-the-jurors-consider-the-lesser-included-offenses-trial-judge-or-defendant/


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Hawkmoon

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Re: Geraldo weighs in
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2015, 07:41:39 AM »
And raises an interesting point. He calls it manslaughter

Where is his law degree from, again?
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Re: Geraldo weighs in
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2015, 07:49:45 AM »
Where is his law degree from, again?

He found it in Al Capone's vault.
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Mannlicher

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Re: Geraldo weighs in
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2015, 08:27:52 AM »
gerald rivers has yet to voice a cogent comment. 

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Re: Geraldo weighs in
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2015, 09:16:26 AM »
Where is his law degree from, again?

Brooklyn Law School, class of 1969.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Geraldo weighs in
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2015, 09:34:27 AM »
Interesting enchanced video and breakdown frame by frame. Along with a combined video with dispatch calls

Trigger warning does not fit the approved narrative

This is more and more like the mike brown story everyday just higher spf of the believers
Its interesting how the riots are paying off by scaring folks into making judgements and decisions.


http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/04/12/game-changer-or-paradigm-shift-walter-scott-shooting-enhanced-video-shows-officer-slager-with-taser-darts/


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Geraldo weighs in
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2015, 09:36:22 AM »
Brooklyn Law School, class of 1969.

Oh snap. Don't forget him working as a police investigator as well


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Scout26

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Re: Geraldo weighs in
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2015, 10:31:24 AM »
Let me explain this to you, and I'll use small words so you understand.

What happened before does not matter.  Any struggle, fight, physical contact prior to the suspect breaking contact and running matters not. 

Once he kicks into Monty Python mode ("Run Away"), the use of deadly force is no longer an option.  The police are there to arrest.  Period. End. Full Stop.  They are not judge, jury and/or executioner.

Again, you have to be able to articulate a threat to you or someone else.  An unarmed suspect fleeing is NOT a threat.   Therefore the police may NOT use deadly force.  Period. End. Full Stop.   Shooting a fleeing suspect in the back is murder and should be charged as such.
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MechAg94

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Re: Geraldo weighs in
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2015, 11:40:37 AM »
That may be the way the law reads, but it all depends on if the jury will give him some benefit of the doubt and agree to lesser charges.  What can a defense attorney do with that?
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MechAg94

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Re: Geraldo weighs in
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2015, 11:45:41 AM »
That is very interesting as there was a lot of outrage and "hang'em high" attitude before when people thought he planted the taser pistol. 
Interesting enchanced video and breakdown frame by frame. Along with a combined video with dispatch calls

Trigger warning does not fit the approved narrative

This is more and more like the mike brown story everyday just higher spf of the believers
Its interesting how the riots are paying off by scaring folks into making judgements and decisions.


http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/04/12/game-changer-or-paradigm-shift-walter-scott-shooting-enhanced-video-shows-officer-slager-with-taser-darts/


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MechAg94

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Re: Geraldo weighs in
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2015, 11:47:46 AM »
I think one of the big problems in discussing controversial shoots like this is that many online make up their mind on guilt early on and refuse to acknowledge new information they didn't know when they first made up their mind.  This may be one reason why don't want jurors discussing the case until after the arguments when deliberations start.  

How would it change your view if the officer thought the guy still had the taser?
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Re: Geraldo weighs in
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2015, 12:06:16 PM »
I think one of the big problems in discussing controversial shoots like this is that many online make up their mind on guilt early on and refuse to acknowledge new information they didn't know when they first made up their mind.  This may be one reason why don't want jurors discussing the case until after the arguments when deliberations start.  

How would it change your view if the officer thought the guy still had the taser?

That wouldn't change my view.  What's the effective distance on a taser?  A taser is not a deadly weapon, but a less lethal compliance tool.  Running away from the officer and not pointing a weapon at anyone? 
Nope.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Geraldo weighs in
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2015, 12:36:39 PM »
I think one of the big problems in discussing controversial shoots like this is that many online make up their mind on guilt early on and refuse to acknowledge new information they didn't know when they first made up their mind.  This may be one reason why don't want jurors discussing the case until after the arguments when deliberations start.  

How would it change your view if the officer thought the guy still had the taser?

I think folks get emotionally invested and it's hard to let go of a point of view. In some cases it predates the incident and is beyond change


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Monkeyleg

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Re: Geraldo weighs in
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2015, 12:44:52 PM »
I think one of the big problems in discussing controversial shoots like this is that many online make up their mind on guilt early on and refuse to acknowledge new information they didn't know when they first made up their mind.  

My best friend, a liberal's liberal, still clings to the idea that Zimmerman was stalking Martin, that Zimmerman didn't stop following, that Zimmerman didn't return to his vehicle, and that Zimmerman was not being beaten when he shot.

Some notions just die hard.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Geraldo weighs in
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2015, 12:56:59 PM »
That wouldn't change my view.  What's the effective distance on a taser?  A taser is not a deadly weapon, but a less lethal compliance tool.  Running away from the officer and not pointing a weapon at anyone?  
Nope.

If (big if) the officer had reason to believe that Scott could still was going to use the taser against him, why would it matter whether the taser is non-lethal? The officer (in this big-if scenario) would reasonably fear that Scott would use it to overpower him, and cause grave injury or death. Not so? Wouldn't any one of us be justified in shooting an attacker, IF we reasonably believed they were about to taser us?


Edited, per jj's reply
« Last Edit: April 12, 2015, 02:12:30 PM by fistful »
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Re: Geraldo weighs in
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2015, 01:05:58 PM »
If (big if) the officer had reason to believe that Scott could still use the taser against him, why would it matter whether the taser is non-lethal? The officer (in this big-if scenario) would reasonably fear that Scott, having taken the taser, would use it to overpower him, and cause grave injury or death. Not so? Wouldn't any one of us be justified in shooting an attacker, IF we reasonably believed they were about to taser us?

In the video, when he begins shooting, the decedent is running away.  I don't believe it reasonable to think that he could believe the taser would be used against him in that situation.  I am also doubtful that he was within the range of a taser at that point.
If he had turned to charge, like Brown, or had stayed in close contact with the officer, I think this would be a different conversation.
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Re: Geraldo weighs in
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2015, 01:06:32 PM »
Every time I read this thread, I'm reminded of an incident from 9 years ago here.  Two detectives arrest 2 young men for suspicion of murder.  One is found to have a .45 in his pocket.  Both are handcuffed and placed in cruisers.  One of them gets his hands from his back to his front (still cuffed), gets out of the car, and commences to run.  Cops shoot and kill fleeing handcuffed suspect.

One month later...
"Las Vegas Police Officers Actions Found Justifiable"  -KLAS TV News, Las Vegas.

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/4909076/las-vegas-metro-police-shoot-and-kill-handcuffed-teen

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/4990822/las-vegas-police-officers-actions-found-justifiable
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Geraldo weighs in
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2015, 01:24:06 PM »
In the video, when he begins shooting, the decedent is running away.  I don't believe it reasonable to think that he could believe the taser would be used against him in that situation.  I am also doubtful that he was within the range of a taser at that point.
If he had turned to charge, like Brown, or had stayed in close contact with the officer, I think this would be a different conversation.


That I would agree with. My point was that the less-lethal nature of the taser shouldn't be a factor.
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Re: Geraldo weighs in
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2015, 01:28:06 PM »
From the video, you can see the taser wires that lead from the barbs to the taser itself.  Once those are deployed, the only way to use the taser is to put a fresh set of barbs on or remove the barb container and use it hands on.
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Re: Geraldo weighs in
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2015, 01:38:59 PM »
Not even considering the video evidence, I think the cop being arrested and charged with murder is a good indication that there isn't much chance at all of the cop being in the right in this shooting. If there was evidence that the cop could have been in the right then it would be a more normal officer involved shooting investigation rather than the officer being pretty much immediately arrested and charged.



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Scout26

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Re: Geraldo weighs in
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2015, 02:09:52 PM »
Shortly after I arrived in Baumholder a Courts Martial of a female MP from another MP Company began.  The facts of the incident are thus:

Friday night and downtown at the Metropol a fight breaks out (which at that place, was like saying water is wet and the sky is blue.  Usually there were several fights a night there.  Worse when 2nd Brigade was newly back from the field, yet the worst fights were when the Brits were in town and training on the MTA.)

Anywho,  MP's and GP's respond.  As the female MP enters she sees Subject use broken beer bottle to slash/stab Victim.  Subject sees female MP and turns to run, heading out side door of Metropol.  Female MP slaps leather, draws and fires, striking Subject in the back torso as he is exiting through the doorway.

Female MP is charged with Attempted Murder.

However, she had a really good defense JAG.   He pointed out two important facts that created some doubt in the minds of the jurors.

1.  The broken bottle was found within 2 feet of the doorway (on the inside of the building), indicating that the Subject may have still had the broken bottle in his hand when struck by the round fired by the female MP.

2.  There were two people about to the enter the Metropol through the side door.

Therefore, it was possible that the Subject could have used the broken bottle to cause death or grievous bodily harm to one or both of the two people approaching the side door.


Once the trial was complete, she was transferred to Frankfurt where she was not allowed to be armed and basically was permanent CQ over at the Abrams building.  IIRC, she was offered a chance to re-class to another MOS.  Last I heard she ETS'd and wasn't offered the opportunity to re-enlist.
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Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
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MechAg94

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Re: Geraldo weighs in
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2015, 03:14:55 PM »
I dislike the idea that someone can legally shoot someone one second then it turns into first degree murder 3 seconds later.  Sometimes that is appropriate, but it just doesn't seem like it ought to be that way.  I think some people are too quick to judge someone on the wrong side of that transition. 

I was thinking more about the MP case above.  I am not sure that applies to the current case or not. 
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re:
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2015, 04:04:24 PM »
Take a close look at the frame by frame in the conservative treehouse link it shows both the Taser and the Taser cartridge as well as the taser wires and where they were going as well as a chain of events that does not feed popular narrative
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Battle Monkey of Zardoz

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Re: Geraldo weighs in
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2015, 05:09:08 PM »
Interesting read. Boy do things change once a video is found. The word of these LEOs should never be trusted.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/04/07/3644189/everything-police-said-walter-scotts-death-video-showed-really-happened/
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