Knife Rights

[Ben]

I thought this was interesting since knife laws come up here from time to time. One of the things I thought about while reading the article is that I have seen the terms "tactical knife" "military knife" and "fighting knife" come up quite a bit of late in media, both news and entertainment.

Recently in a local news story, some crank threatened his neighbor, so he had all his guns and knives confiscated. The story specifically said a "military knife" was taken. The photo of the bolt action rifles, katana, and knife had the knife, to me, looking like a Spyderco. CA actually has very liberal knife laws that absolutely allow most any length of folder that's manual or assisted opening, but the story made it sound like the guy had an illegal knife of some sort.

I also saw in a couple of recent NCIS episodes that they referred to a folding knife in a way that made it look like, "What's a civilian doing with this?"

Anyway, it's probably good that there is some movement on fixing some of the silly knife laws out there.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/05/11/knife-rights-movement-gets-switchblades-other-knife-laws-repealed-in-states/

[Hawkmoon]

I have never understood why many states (mine included) will issue a permit/license to carry a concealed firearm, but the license doesn't include a folding pocket knife.

[Yes, a few states issue concealed "weapons" permits, but I think they are in the minority.]

[wmenorr67]

To me a knife is just like a firearm, it is a tool.

[griz]

Reporters tend to be clueless about guns and knives.  I think when they see one they don't think looks typical, they assume it is for some evil purpose and attach whatever name that comes to mind if it seems scary enough.  Besides the "assault rifle" term, the recent confusion in Baltimore over a knife that wasn't a switchblade comes to mind.

Since fixed blade knives came first, I've always wondered how making a folder easier to open became viewed as dangerous.  It's like outlawing running water because it makes it easier to drown somebody.

[vaskidmark]

Reporters tend to be clueless about guns and knives.  I think when they see one they don't think looks typical, they assume it is for some evil purpose and attach whatever name that comes to mind if it seems scary enough.  Besides the "assault rifle" term, the recent confusion in Baltimore over a knife that wasn't a switchblade comes to mind.

It seems that in the rest of Maryland the knife in question is not a switchblade, but within the city limits of Baltimore it is in fact a switchblade.

Knife laws need the same preemption treatment as that which most states have regarding firearm laws.

stay safe.

[KD5NRH]

I have never understood why many states (mine included) will issue a permit/license to carry a concealed firearm, but the license doesn't include a folding pocket knife.

I'd like to have one that covers an expandable baton.  Sure, I'd rather use a gun when practical, but it's better than a knife, and in a crowd, I at least know I'm not going to endanger anyone outside of a few feet from me with it.

[T.O.M.]

Funny this comes up today,  as I have been thinking about this issue.  My primary EDC knife is a SOG Trident, which is an assisted opening knife.  Used it by a cop friend who informed me it is illegal in Columbus, Ohio, as are any spring opening jnives.  Makes me think of shifting to a pure manual knife, just to be safe no matter where I may travel.

[MikeB]

To me a knife is just like a firearm, it is a tool.

A knife should be considered a tool and unregulated like a screwdriver, it should also be covered by the whole keep and bear arms thingie. I'm pretty sure the founding fathers had knives they considered tools, ones that were arms and ones that were both.

[MechAg94]

I'd like to have one that covers an expandable baton.  Sure, I'd rather use a gun when practical, but it's better than a knife, and in a crowd, I at least know I'm not going to endanger anyone outside of a few feet from me with it.

Since we mention tools, just carry a fence tool.

[T.O.M.]

A knife should be considered a tool and unregulated like a screwdriver, it should also be covered by the whole keep and bear arms thingie. I'm pretty sure the founding fathers had knives they considered tools, ones that were arms and ones that were both.

What's funny to me is that, for me, a knife is truly a tool.  I took a class in knife defense, and learned that I better bring a gun to a knife fight...or a whole lot of band aids.

[French G.]

Jim Crow. Virginia was may issue, the right people could get guns, got to keep all the other weapons from the wrong people.

[MikeB]

What's funny to me is that, for me, a knife is truly a tool.  I took a class in knife defense, and learned that I better bring a gun to a knife fight...or a whole lot of band aids.

I've studied martial arts that had knife training and came to the same conclusion fighting against someone with a knife or defending against someone with a knife means your are probably almost definitely going to get cut. Doesn't mean a knife isn't an arm and shouldn't be protected under the 2nd Amendment.

[vaskidmark]

Jim Crow. Virginia was may issue, the right people could get guns, got to keep all the other weapons from the wrong people.

Went from a "concealed weapons permit" under may-issue to a "concealed handgun permit" under shall-issue.  Lots of folks left wondering what to do with that razor that used to be carried in their sock.  Not to mention that you now had to be somebody special like the Harbormaster of the City of Hopewell (inside Va politics joke - they stashed the party bigwig's kid brother there hoping he could not screw that up like he had every previous wet dream) to still carry a switchblade.

Still illegal to sell switchblades in Va (possession is OK) so dealers at gunshows started giving them away with every bag of candy you bought.  State Police stood there and watched me buy several bags of candy.  After a while the State Police got the OK to ramp up intimidation on dealers so you hardly see a switchblade any more.

stay safe.

[T.O.M.]

I've studied martial arts that had knife training and came to the same conclusion fighting against someone with a knife or defending against someone with a knife means your are probably almost definitely going to get cut. Doesn't mean a knife isn't an arm and shouldn't be protected under the 2nd Amendment.

Agreed.  Also agree that a concealed weapon permit should include less lethal options like a baton to allow an individual to escalate force in proportion to the threat.

[zxcvbob]

Since we mention tools, just carry a fence tool.

Isn't that still illegal in Texas?

[MechAg94]

Isn't that still illegal in Texas?

It would probably be considered a club I guess. 

I think Texas allows knives up to 3" blade length, but that is just what I have heard.

[Monkeyleg]

I also saw in a couple of recent NCIS episodes that they referred to a folding knife in a way that made it look like, "What's a civilian doing with this?"

Reminds me of the scene from "Dirty Harry" when Clint Eastwood is taping an Italian switchblade to his ankle, and his lieutenant says, "it's disgusting that a police officer should know how to use a weapon like that." 

[MillCreek]

Agreed.  Also agree that a concealed weapon permit should include less lethal options like a baton to allow an individual to escalate force in proportion to the threat.

I hypothetically know a person, let's call him a middle-aged healthcare executive white male, who on occasion carries an ASP collapsible baton with him, even though that is possibly illegal under Washington state law.  He thinks to himself that the chance of him being involved with the police is exceedingly low, and he would rather use an effective less-lethal alternative if at all possible, and if he does have to use it, he is confident between his socioeconomic class and legal representation that the legal system will not be overly hard on him.  He also thinks that he would rather take his chances and be tried by twelve than carried by six.

[zxcvbob]

It would probably be considered a club I guess. 

I think Texas allows knives up to 3" blade length, but that is just what I have heard.

Not an illegal weapon.  I mean illegal because of some antiquated law about cattle rustling (carrying fence tools, "running" branding irons, or wire cutters). 

[HankB]

It would probably be considered a club I guess. 

I think Texas allows knives up to 3" blade length, but that is just what I have heard.

Automatic knives (switchblades) are now legal in TX, but the law still restricts carry of dirks, daggers, Bowie knives, and knives with a blade over 5.5" in length.

IANAL, but it's my understanding that case law - not actual statute - has held that dirks and daggers are double edged, so along with certain fixed blade knives there are some switchblades (notably some OTF/Out The Front opening knives) that are still restricted for carry.

(6)  "Illegal knife" means a:
(A)  knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;
(B)  hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown;
(C)  dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard;
(D)  bowie knife;
(E)  sword; or
(F)  spear.

Other parts of the law deal with clubs, tomahawks, etc.

[Angel Eyes]

Bowie knives are illegal in Texas??  Where is their sense of history?

[brimic]

Bowie knives are illegal in Texas??  Where is their sense of history irony?

FIFY

[zxcvbob]

Bowie knives are illegal in Texas??  Where is their sense of history?

Sad, ain't it?  (and I bet there's not a legal definition of Bowie knife)

[KD5NRH]

Sad, ain't it?  (and I bet there's not a legal definition of Bowie knife)

Nope.  Not a single word of definition to clarify what constitutes a bowie knife, sword, spear or "dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard."

[T.O.M.]

I hypothetically know a person, let's call him a middle-aged healthcare executive white male, who on occasion carries an ASP collapsible baton with him, even though that is possibly illegal under Washington state law.  He thinks to himself that the chance of him being involved with the police is exceedingly low, and he would rather use an effective less-lethal alternative if at all possible, and if he does have to use it, he is confident between his socioeconomic class and legal representation that the legal system will not be overly hard on him.  He also thinks that he would rather take his chances and be tried by twelve than carried by six.

I tell people all the time, make your choices and live withe TT he consequences.  Sounds like you have.  Good for you.

Not sure how the law is for your neck of the woods, but here in Ohio, the prohibition on concealed weapons is a misdemeanor for anything but a loaded firearm.  Of course, if you would have to use it, the charges could be higher, but the law of self-defense then would come into play as well.