Flip off the President - Lose Your Job

[Werewolf]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15532553/

I'm a bit conflicted by this one. Is the right to make a political statement only guaranteed when children aren't around? On the other hand is it right and proper to use mildly offensive gestures in the presence of children even if that gesture is made as a political statement.

SEATTLE - A school bus driver fired after she reportedly made an obscene gesture at President Bush has filed a union grievance in an attempt to get her job back.

The 43-year-old driver, whose name was not released, was driving middle school children back to school after a zoo visit on June 16 when the president and Republican Rep. Dave Reichert drove slowly by in a motorcade.

From the bus, the children waved; with the windows down in their car, Bush and Reichert waved back.

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Thats when the driver gave the president the finger, according to Reichert and Issaquah superintendent Janet Barry.

The congressman hadnt seen it, but the president turned to him and said, That ones not a fan, said Reichert spokeswoman Kimberly Cadena.

Reichert later called Barry to tell her about the incident, but the bus driver had already been fired. District officials learned about the incident after the driver boasted to colleagues about it, Cadena said.

District spokeswoman Sara Niegowski said the driver has filed a wrongful termination grievance through the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees. The union did not return calls seeking comment.

Niegowski said the firing was not politically motivated.

The bus driver was not terminated for making an obscene gesture at the president. The bus driver was terminated for making an obscene gesture in view of the students, Niegowski said. Thats not the role modeling we need for our students.

The reason given for firing the bus driver seems to arguably be reasonable. I can't decide though whether the driver should have been fired or not but am leaning towards not. The finger is a very mild invective and I'd bet most kids have seen it by the age of 8 or so. If there was another means for the bus driver to express her discontent with Mr. Bush right then and there quickly and efficiently I can't imagine what it would be. I think the exigencies of the situation should be taken into account and the Bus Driver given her job back.

[Perd Hapley]

3 possible explanations:

• She was not a stellar employee, and this was just the official reason to fire her.
• Those making the decision were VERY pro-Bush. 
• Both.

[Jamisjockey]

I can't stand bush, but his comment is pretty damn funny
"That one's not a fan"
 

[StopTheGrays]

If there was another means for the bus driver to express her discontent with Mr. Bush right then and there quickly and efficiently  I can't imagine what it would be.

Give a thumbs down. Stick out your tongue. Turn your back to him. Except for mooning him, flipping the President the bird with a bus full there is pretty much the stupidest thing one could in that situation. If anything she should be fired for being stupid.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

If you're a bus driver and you make obscene gestures to anyone while kids are around, there's a pretty good chance you'll get fired.  This is as it should be.  It doesn't matter if you give the finger to the President or to any random stranger.

If you can't be trusted to behave as an adult in front of the children, how can you be trusted with the lives and safety of those children?

[grampster]

Look's like we're still # 1.  The school district should have rubbed the driver's nose in it a bit, made her humble herself, but not fire her.  I would have made her address the students and have a discussion about political dissent, freedom of speech, being a gentleman, and having respect for her students.  Firing her is a cheap shot and about as bogue as her giving W the bird.

[charby]

I flipped off Al Gore when he was running for President, I saw his motorcade coming and we had to pull over to let it pass and I gave him the bird as the limo passed by.

[Gun Runner]

I flipped off Al Gore when he was running for President, I saw his motorcade coming and we had to pull over to let it pass and I gave him the bird as the limo passed by.

OMG!  You're so immature!  You should be fired!   

[Guest]

I dunno.

She was performing her job, which is to care for children during a period of the day, and she failed in that, miserably. Flipping someone off like that while driving a bus load of children shows very poor judgement. She showed a lack of respect for the children, for the office of the president, and for her own position.

I'd have said the same thing if she flipped off Clinton, which I've done myself. If she's being hired to act as a caretaker and perceived as a leader by children, she has an obligation not to make obsene gestures in public while performing her duties.

[SteveS]

I would imagine if I made the same gesture while working, whether it was at the president or someone else, I would face some kind of sanction. 

[caseydog]

SEATTLE - A school bus driver fired after she reportedly made an obscene gesture at President Bush has filed a union grievance in an attempt to get her job back.

The 43-year-old driver, whose name was not released, was driving middle school children back to school after a zoo visit on June 16 when the president and Republican Rep. Dave Reichert drove slowly by in a motorcade.

From the bus, the children waved; with the windows down in their car, Bush and Reichert waved back.

Thats when the driver gave the president the finger, according to Reichert and Issaquah superintendent Janet Barry.

The congressman hadnt seen it, but the president turned to him and said, That ones not a fan, said Reichert spokeswoman Kimberly Cadena.

Reichert later called Barry to tell her about the incident, but the bus driver had already been fired. District officials learned about the incident after the driver boasted to colleagues about it, Cadena said.

District spokeswoman Sara Niegowski said the driver has filed a wrongful termination grievance through the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees. The union did not return calls seeking comment.

Niegowski said the firing was not politically motivated.

The bus driver was not terminated for making an obscene gesture at the president. The bus driver was terminated for making an obscene gesture in view of the students, Niegowski said. Thats not the role modeling we need for our students.

I guess the only thing more surprising than the incident is the current results of the MSN "Live Vote":

Should the bus driver get her job back? 36165 responses

"Yes. Her action was simply a matter of free expression - an American right -- and didn't deserve being fired for." 39%

"No. That form of expression crossed the line; it sent the wrong signal to children and was disrespectful." 61%

Ray

[cosine]

I think the company's reason for terminating the employment of the employee is spot-on.

I think Barbara summed it up well.

If the bus driver really had to show her dissatisfaction, a thumb-down symbol or something similar would have been acceptable, at least in my opinion.

[Stand_watie]

She should be fired for flipping anybody off in the presence of the schoolkids, and any employer would be well within reason to fire her for that kind of behavior in public whether children were present or not.

I work a lowly factory job and my company would rightfully fire me for embarrassing them in public while on the clock.

[gunsmith]

she has taught the kids the true nature of liberalism

[Art Eatman]

Some of the comments here show how far downhill we've come in taking obscentiy in a casual manner.

Flippping the bird is the hand signal for "FU", indicating serious contempt.  There are many folks out here who will readily go to feeding knuckle sandwiches in response.  For many, it's worse than "dissing" in the ghetto--it's obscene disrespect.

Not exactly what little kids are supposed to learn.

Moving to the political side of the argument:  No matter how much contempt you feel for the person in the Oval Office, you respect the Presidency itself.  That's another lesson for kids.

No matter how sorry the general, you respect the uniform.  Soldiers salute the uniform, not the person.

No matter how sorry the preacher, you respect the church, the religion.

No matter how sorry the professor, you respect the institution of learning.

Individual people come and go.  Institutions stay.

Art

[lumpy]

Headless said:

If you can't be trusted to behave as an adult in front of the children, how can you be trusted with the lives and safety of those children?

I totally agree, she was an employee and her job was to transport children. I would assume that there are rules for bus drivers that say they cannot make obscene gestures.  although I would completely support any individual to give the bird to the president, in fact I do it daily... he just doesn't see it from there.

[Green Lantern]

Seems pretty cut-and dried to me.  She could have cussed a blue streak at him, as long as she wasn't on the clock while driving a bus full of kids!

I don't drive a bus full of kids, but if I go around flipping off people while in my work "uniform" (with the company name on it!), then I don't think my superiors would be amused in the least.

[Stand_watie]

Just for the sake of argument, let's say she did something that wasn't in the least vulgar or obcene, and to a less powerful member of society in front of the children. Let's say she leaned out of the bus window and shouted "get a job, you smelly pile of dog poop!" at a vagrant she saw on her bus route...

I'd submit that her employer would be perfectly justified in firing her, and I'd be plenty unhappy as a parent to have that behavior modeled to my children by school employees whether they be the teacher, the bus driver, the lunch lady or the janitor.