Author Topic: "Excuse me, fuhrer, can I talk to you for a minute?"  (Read 3692 times)

zahc

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"Excuse me, fuhrer, can I talk to you for a minute?"
« on: November 02, 2006, 05:11:34 PM »
November 1, 2006 -- A student at a Brooklyn high school named for a prominent Jewish educator faced a blitzkrieg of trouble yesterday when he arrived dressed as Adolf Hitler for Halloween.

Walter Petryk, 16, insisted his masquerade was a lampoon of the Nazi dictator - but administrators at Leon M. Goldstein HS declared autumn for Hitler and detained Petryk as their "prisoner of war."

The junior honors student, who grew a moustache for the occasion, was pulled out of his second-period English class and told to remove his beige coat bearing a red swastika armband or risk spending the day in the of fice.

"Excuse me, fuhrer, can I talk to you for a minute?" is how Petryk recalled the dean, Paul Puglia, summoning him out of class.


Should he have been allowed to stay in class wearing his Hitler outfit?
Post your comments here Puglia then allegedly asked, "Are you out of your mind, you idiot?" and ordered him to the office with, "Consider yourself my prisoner of war."


Celeb Halloween costume photos
More photos here Petryk said he understood the concerns of administrators that faculty members had lost relatives in the Holocaust. But he maintained the costume was a parody protected under his right to free expression, and refused to take it off

"I figured somebody would say something eventually, but I really do believe that people have a right to express themselves," said Petryk, an aspiring comedy writer who counts Mel Brooks, "Weird Al" Yankovic and the Monty Python cast among his idols.

His mother and stepfather, who is Jewish and lost ancestors in the Nazi genocide, defended Petryk's stance. They rebuffed pleas by the dean to advise their son to remove the costume so he could return to class.

"This is a matter of artistic free expression and a school not being stupid," said his mother, Diane Petryk- Bloom, who picked her son up at school. "[The dean is] offended by a parody of Hitler - and he's acting like Hitler."

Petryk's stepfather is Howard Bloom, a journalist whose book, "The Lucifer Principle," has been targeted by censors who accuse it of being anti-Islam. Bloom said he bristled at the thought of Walter being censored, even though he was initially "very disturbed" by the Halloween getup.

"If he had wanted to advocate my genocide, I wouldn't have allowed [the costume]," Bloom said. "That wasn't the spirit in which he was doing this at all. He was doing it in the spirit of Monty Python and Mel Brooks."

City Department of Education spokesman Keith Kalb said school administrators "followed appropriate procedures" after receiving "several complaints from offended students and staff."

The department's discipline code states that students who wear clothing deemed disruptive to the educational process may be removed from class.

Petryk said he was a hit with his peers, who clamored for photos of him as the fascist tyrant. "The first class I went to, everybody was laughing," he said.

Students had mixed reactions to the outfit.

"Why would you come as something that is supposed to offend people?" asked junior Dean Waterlan, 16. "It's not cute, it's not cool. I think the school was right."

My Bui, 16, a senior, said, "I thought it was funny, but a lot of people didn't like it."

Petryk said he didn't set out to push the envelope as Hitler. But he acknowledged that he made a decision to disguise himself as Charlie Chaplin with a bowler hat and cane on his way to school to avoid ruffling feathers on the street.

"I wasn't going to get on the subway in a Hitler costume," Petryk said.

david.andreatta@nypost.com

http://www.nypost.com/seven/11012006...k_gallahue.htm
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: "Excuse me, fuhrer, can I talk to you for a minute?"
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2006, 05:28:55 PM »
Heh, that's kinda funny.  Actually, that's really funny.  This whole story is the sort of subtle, dry, absurd humor that I really enjoy.

Attaboy, fuhrer.   grin

The Rabbi

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Re: "Excuse me, fuhrer, can I talk to you for a minute?"
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2006, 02:51:40 AM »
I didnt particularly have a problem with it.  Just like I didnt when Prince whoever dressed up like a Nazi for a costume party.
I wonder what would have happened if he had come dressed as a Klansman.
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Ezekiel

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Re: "Excuse me, fuhrer, can I talk to you for a minute?"
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2006, 03:06:30 AM »
Quote
I wonder what would have happened if he had come dressed as a Klansman.

Likely nothing.  The Klan is certainly less "threatening" to many Americans: White Power is merely an irritant to most folks.
Zeke

Art Eatman

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Re: "Excuse me, fuhrer, can I talk to you for a minute?"
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2006, 03:14:08 AM »
People either forget history or never learn it.  Like the guy said all those years ago, that's the reason we keep repeating it.

Hitler is one of several symbols of evil in human guise.  Evil in the Biblical sense.  Any sort of imitation is anathema to those who know, and an admission of terrible ignorance on the part of those who don't know.

In this case, ignorance is no excuse.  Wearing the costume calls to mind such horrors as Auschwicz or  Bergen-Belsen.  As far as I'm concerned, those who think it's cute and clever or of no importance should spend a few months in the conditions of Auschwicz or Bergen-Belsen.  First-hand history lessons tend to stay learned.

I grant the kid's not totally at fault.  Nobody is born an expert anything, including "historianship".  Somewhere along the way, our school systems don't teach the bad along with the good, or gloss over the bad parts of our common history...

Art

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Perd Hapley

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Re: "Excuse me, fuhrer, can I talk to you for a minute?"
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2006, 03:22:09 AM »
With a mother like this, the kid's behavior is no surprise.

Quote
"This is a matter of artistic free expression and a school not being stupid," said his mother, Diane Petryk- Bloom, who picked her son up at school. "[The dean is] offended by a parody of Hitler - and he's acting like Hitler."
Another reason to be suspicious of anyone with a hyphenated name. 


Any of you familiar with the history of The Third Reich will recall that the Nazi regime flagrantly violated the artistic expression of Jewish students by barring them from impersonating genocidal dictators.  This, of course, led directly to the death camps.


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mfree

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Re: "Excuse me, fuhrer, can I talk to you for a minute?"
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2006, 04:10:58 AM »
Halloween costumes of fake and storied monsters are cute, fun, and entertaining.

Halloween costumes of the real monsters hit a little close to home.

Werewolf

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Re: "Excuse me, fuhrer, can I talk to you for a minute?"
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2006, 04:23:18 AM »
I wonder how the school would have reacted if the student had come dressed as Stalin?
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matis

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Re: "Excuse me, fuhrer, can I talk to you for a minute?"
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2006, 04:50:59 AM »
I wonder how the school would have reacted if the student had come dressed as Stalin?



Or Che Guevara, or Fidel Castro, (or Nancy Pelosi -- simply in an incipient stage).


They'd have feted him!  Celebrated his enlightenment.



Actually, I don't think freedom of speech applies to high school students.

Discipline applies to high school students.


The inmates are now running the asylum.


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grampster

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Re: "Excuse me, fuhrer, can I talk to you for a minute?"
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2006, 05:10:46 AM »
I am a fan of free speech.  I also understand how warped the minds of some teens are, when it comes to trying to disrupt adults.  Been there, done that.

Hitler's crimes go far beyond the genocide of Jews, Gypsies, Catholics and others that did not fit his world view.  He also destroyed Europe, parts of Russia, England, Italy, and Africa and was the architect of the Cold War.   Millions of others innocent people were swept up and died in the fog of the battles that raged around the globe.  This says nothing about the billions (trillions?) of dollars that were spent on the war and the aftermath.  Many historical treasures were lost as well.  Hitler was a plague, an evil spirit who's rabid influence is still felt today.

There is no excuse to use this creature as a parody or in a humorous fashion.  The reaction of his parents indicate why this kid hasn't got a clue.  Sigh...the next generation of barking moonbats has been spawned.  My son never would have made it out of the house in this costume.  There is freedom of speech and freedom of expression in America.  There is also common sense and good manners.  This boy's parents, have free reign with the former, but have none of the latter.
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cordex

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Re: "Excuse me, fuhrer, can I talk to you for a minute?"
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2006, 06:07:45 AM »
"Hitler is far too evil and horrible to dress up as!  Now put on your Satan costume."

danny

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Re: "Excuse me, fuhrer, can I talk to you for a minute?"
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2006, 06:15:02 AM »
"The department's discipline code states that students who wear clothing deemed disruptive to the educational process may be removed from class."

I wonder what would have happened if someone showed up in Islamic garb and his/her fellow students found it disruptive?

Definitely a dumb stunt on this kid's part, though.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: "Excuse me, fuhrer, can I talk to you for a minute?"
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2006, 06:26:49 AM »
Quote
People either forget history or never learn it.  Like the guy said all those years ago, that's the reason we keep repeating it.

Hitler is one of several symbols of evil in human guise.  Evil in the Biblical sense.  Any sort of imitation is anathema to those who know, and an admission of terrible ignorance on the part of those who don't know.

In this case, ignorance is no excuse.  Wearing the costume calls to mind such horrors as Auschwicz or  Bergen-Belsen.  As far as I'm concerned, those who think it's cute and clever or of no importance should spend a few months in the conditions of Auschwicz or Bergen-Belsen.  First-hand history lessons tend to stay learned.

I grant the kid's not totally at fault.  Nobody is born an expert anything, including "historianship".  Somewhere along the way, our school systems don't teach the bad along with the good, or gloss over the bad parts of our common history...

Art

Yeah, Hitler was evil.  Not just bad or mean, but well and truly Evil Incarnate.  Biblically Evil.  We get that.  The student does too, surely.

So what?  It was a Halloween costume.  People dress up as Satan for Halloween, too.  Dressing up as something Evil (that's capital-E Evil, not evil) is exactly the point of Halloween, innit?

The kid was making a joke about his name and it's historical significance.  It was a good joke, too.  If anything, it demonstrated that he really does grasp history.

The Rabbi

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Re: "Excuse me, fuhrer, can I talk to you for a minute?"
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2006, 08:06:09 AM »
Yeah, Hitler was evil.  Not just bad or mean, but well and truly Evil Incarnate.  Biblically Evil.  We get that.  The student does too, surely.

So what?  It was a Halloween costume.  People dress up as Satan for Halloween, too.  Dressing up as something Evil (that's capital-E Evil, not evil) is exactly the point of Halloween, innit?

The kid was making a joke about his name and it's historical significance.  It was a good joke, too.  If anything, it demonstrated that he really does grasp history.

I would disagree with the "Evil" label.  Not that he was a great guy or anything.  But simply labeling someone "evil" allows everyone else to whitewash over the whole period.
I agree with the Headless One: given the context (Halloween), so what?  It was a joke.  It was for fun.  If some people are offended, screw 'em.
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Ezekiel

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Re: "Excuse me, fuhrer, can I talk to you for a minute?"
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2006, 08:40:00 AM »
Quote
I agree with the Headless One: given the context (Halloween), so what?  It was a joke.  It was for fun.  If some people are offended, screw 'em.

Did we just agree on something?  Is that legal?  Smiley
Zeke

brimic

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Re: "Excuse me, fuhrer, can I talk to you for a minute?"
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2006, 08:41:48 AM »
Weren't a lot of people here chearing on the guy who dressed up as Muhammed with a bomb on his head just a few days ago? I find it kind of strange that making fun of a religeous or political icon is deemed to be OK, but Hitler is too 'sacred' or 'untouchable' to lampoon. People are a little uptight here, go watch a Mel Brooks movie and enjoy yourselves.
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CAnnoneer

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Re: "Excuse me, fuhrer, can I talk to you for a minute?"
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2006, 09:02:41 AM »
Yes, a classic example of "everything we don't care about is fair game, but what we care about is off-limits." Hypocrisy at its silliest. "You are my prisoner of war" is just priceless.

Those of you who bemoan Hitler as some form of Evil Incarnate deny yourselves the hard truth that he was just an uneducated failed painter, a rather unremarkable man, who was swept into power by developments far beyond his control. I think you will certainly be more truthful with yourselves albeit far less comfortable if you see and admit that there is a little hitler in all of us. The difference is made by what extent we give in to our hatreds, fears, paranoia, and frustrations, while working under externally imposed conditions which can be rather harsh.

Finally, nazism appeared at least partially as a countermovement to bolshevism/communism, and so the latter are at least equally at fault for the European fiasco.

Lee

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Re: "Excuse me, fuhrer, can I talk to you for a minute?"
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2006, 09:34:41 AM »
"Those of you who bemoan Hitler as some form of Evil Incarnate deny yourselves the hard truth that he was just an uneducated failed painter, a rather unremarkable man, who was swept into power by developments far beyond his control. I think you will certainly be more truthful with yourselves albeit far less comfortable if you see and admit that there is a little hitler in all of us. The difference is made by what extent we give in to our hatreds, fears, paranoia, and frustrations, while working under externally imposed conditions which can be rather harsh."

And then there's the complication of getting a whole nation behind you to carry out your evilness.

CAnnoneer

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Re: "Excuse me, fuhrer, can I talk to you for a minute?"
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2006, 09:42:26 AM »
Quote from: Lee
And then there's the complication of getting a whole nation behind you to carry out your evilness.

Therein the misconception. Hitler was not some titanic figure that perverted a nation into his evil grandomaniacal schemes. In fact, he was the embodiment of undercurrents both on personal and national scale that were already present and thriving. That a leader would emerge to personify them and put them into words and action was inevitable. That leader's name might have been Strasser, Rohm, or Heindrich or who knows what else, but there would have been one to be selected and appointed naturally by the conditions present.

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Re: "Excuse me, fuhrer, can I talk to you for a minute?"
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2006, 10:24:24 AM »
People either forget history or never learn it.  Like the guy said all those years ago, that's the reason we keep repeating it.

...Wearing the costume calls to mind such horrors as Auschwicz or  Bergen-Belsen.  As far as I'm concerned, those who think it's cute and clever or of no importance should spend a few months in the conditions of Auschwicz or Bergen-Belsen.  First-hand history lessons tend to stay learned.

It seems that this statement contains some self-contradiction. Calling to mind the horrors of the Holocaust seems like a fairly important thing to you as those memories are important to who we are. How can you say in the same breath that someone should be criticized for calling to mind such things and that remembering it is important? You are criticising this student for providing the same lesson that you are advocating.

doczinn

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Re: "Excuse me, fuhrer, can I talk to you for a minute?"
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2006, 11:24:31 AM »
Quote
"I wasn't going to get on the subway in a Hitler costume," Petryk said.
Smart, too.

And, disguising himself as Charlie Chaplin (who also dressed as Hitler once, you may recall) shows an admirable sense of appropriateness. This is a budding comic genius.

It was parody, leave the kid alone.
D. R. ZINN

Stand_watie

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Re: "Excuse me, fuhrer, can I talk to you for a minute?"
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2006, 06:18:17 PM »
Does this whole discussion smack of the South Park episode where Cartman dresses as hitler and gets re-dressed by the school as a "nice ghost" in a klan outfit?

I'm not particularly offended by the school administration's actions, it looks to me like they tried to downplay the issue and deal with it without a big scene - it sounds like the kids parents are way over litigious - that said, I also wouldn't be offended if the school administration had just ignored it.

I think that people who are oversensitive could learn a good lesson from some of our board members who have a little more reason to pull the "victim" card (ie hitler) and don't - in essence taking potential power away from people who, in the future, might attempt to victimize others by "shocking" or "outrageous" commentary.
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