Lawyer seeks trial by combat to resolve lawsuit

[MechAg94]

http://www.silive.com/northshore/index.ssf/2015/08/real-life_game_of_thrones_layw.html

A Staten Island lawyer with a penchant for bowties and closely-cut beards is apparently channeling his inner "Games of Thrones" by asking a judge to sanction a trial by combat to resolve a civil suit in which he's accused of helping a client commit fraud.

Interesting.  I wonder if his strategy is to win the lawsuit by making the judge die of laughter. 

Luthmann may be sticking his neck out professionally, as well.

He acknowledged the judge could take a dim view of his request, when a reporter asked him that question.

But he insists there's a bigger Constitutional issue here: Exactly what rights are protected under the Ninth Amendment?

The amendment protects all the rights of the people not mentioned specifically elsewhere in the Constitution. In this case, it's trial by combat, says Luthmann.

"The judge may look askance at it, but I'm prepared to take it to the highest level," Luthmann said. "I'd love to have a court determine whether we have those rights under the Constitution."

[230RN]

He's thinking Beyond This Horizon.

The trouble with trial by combat, the Code Duello, and mutual combat, is that sheer might makes right more often than mere Providential Justice does.

("Might" encompasses weaponry and skill therewith, not just exclusively muscle mass.  Muscle mass was king until the first caveman picked up a rock as a weapon.)

Liked that bow tie.  Some of my best friends wore bow ties.

Terry


REF FWIW:

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
 — From Robert Heinlein’s Beyond This Horizon (1942).

[Hawkmoon]

It could get interesting.

Luthmann may be sticking his neck out professionally, as well.

Professionally, to be sure. But, despite the fact that he appears to be an extra-large size individual, I note that he's making provision to stack the deck -- as well as to have it stacked against him.

"As such, the undersigned (Luthmann) respectfully requests that the court permit the undersigned to dispatch plaintiffs and their counsel to the Divine Providence of the Maker for Him to exact His divine judgment once the undersigned has released the souls of the plaintiffs and their counsel from their corporeal bodies, personally and or by way of a champion."

How did this "champion" bit work in days of olde when knights were bold? Was it only the [allegedly] aggrieved party who got to choose a champion, or could both parties choose stand-ins? Bring on the Vince McMahon steroid popper circus. Hulk Hogan v. The Undertaker, perhaps?

[Ned Hamford]

I thought there might be an interesting binding arbitration type out... Nope, Fight to the Death.

I wonder if he is going for a mental illness out for the inevitable referral to the state bar for his licensing challenge. 

[Boomhauer]

Look! It's James Yeager's lawyer!

Also, all this guy is missing is a fedora and a Mosin.

[Tallpine]

Any gentleman here will lend you a sword 

[RoadKingLarry]

I'd pay good money to watch that.

[BlueStarLizzard]

Dueling is defiantly one of those masculain activities that makes all woman go "men are stupid"

Yeah, so, killing each other in an organized fight to resolve an argument that has nothing to do with your physical prowess is not actually resolving an argument.

Dueling is stupid.

[Tallpine]

Dueling is defiantly one of those masculain activities that makes all woman go "men are stupid"

Yeah, so, killing each other in an organized fight to resolve an argument that has nothing to do with your physical prowess is not actually resolving an argument.

Dueling is stupid.

So is war, which amounts to the same thing.

[230RN]

I'm wondering if some of his statements could be construed as either death threats or terrorism, or both.

As such, the undersigned (Luthmann) respectfully requests that the court permit the undersigned to dispatch plaintiffs and their counsel to the Divine Providence of the Maker for Him to exact His divine judgment once the undersigned has released the souls of the plaintiffs and their counsel from their corporeal bodies, personally and or by way of a champion.

Well, it strikes me that if it's an unenumerated right, as he suggests, then he shouldn't have to petition the court for permission.

Yikes!

 :D    

But I understand that unenumerated rights are left to the States, or to the People, and I would guess that most individual States have prohibited mutual combat, no?

Terry

[Hawkmoon]

I'm wondering if some of his statements could be construed as either death threats or terrorism, or both.

Hanlon's Razor:

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

[vaskidmark]

.

How did this "champion" bit work in days of olde when knights were bold? Was it only the [allegedly] aggrieved party who got to choose a champion, or could both parties choose stand-ins? Bring on the Vince McMahon steroid popper circus. Hulk Hogan v. The Undertaker, perhaps?

Champions were permitted when a party (usually the aggrieved) was demonstrably weaker or otherwise inferior to the challenger.

http://www.marylutyndall.com/2012/05/code-duello-rules-of-dueling.html and http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/duel/sfeature/rulesofdueling.html

Seconds were occasionally allowed to stand in for their principal:

Rule 14. Seconds to be of equal rank in society with the principals they attend, inasmuch as a second may either choose or chance to become a principal, and equality is indispensible.

But being as this is 'Murica we might want to go by 'Mericun rules: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/6085/6085-h/6085-h.htm
http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/6085/pg6085.txt
some ZIP files @ http://www.gutenberg.org/files/6085/

Any gentleman here will lend you a sword 

Not so fast there!

Dueling is permitted only between gentlemen.  By definition lawyers, like actors, are not gentlemen.  Loaning your sword to a ruffian, poltroon, or rabble (to keep the list short) would bring shame and dishonor upon you - perhaps worse than reneging on a debt.

OTOH, you might offer the barrister your stick or a horsewhip with which to beat the defendant.  That would be allowed without causing an affront.

stay safe.

[Tallpine]

Dueling is permitted only between gentlemen.  By definition lawyers, like actors, are not gentlemen.  Loaning your sword to a ruffian, poltroon, or rabble (to keep the list short) would bring shame and dishonor upon you - perhaps worse than reneging on a debt.

Well, maybe I'm not a fancy gentleman like you, with your... very fine hat.

[vaskidmark]

Well, maybe I'm not a fancy gentleman like you, with your... very fine hat.

To my knowledge, no one has given either of us the insult of suggesting that we are gentlemen.

stay safe.

[BlueStarLizzard]

So is war, which amounts to the same thing.

No, actually, it's not.

Duels are fought over determining right from wrong and to establish honor. The 'winner' of a duel gains no tangable benefits and the loser only looses his life or honor. The aggressor can be safely ignored or dealt with in a non violent manner.

Wars have more much more at stake, and the aggressor often cannot be ignored.

Edit to add: if the aggressor in a duel cannot safely be ignored, than there should not be a duel. You should take care of the threat on your life, immediately and without 'rules', not be playing around with stupid games.

Again, duels are stupid.

[Tallpine]

The winners of wars have a pretty consistent record of saying what is "right" (resolving an argument).

[BlueStarLizzard]

The winners of wars have a pretty consistent record of saying what is "right" (resolving an argument).

Are you purposefully being dense?

[TommyGunn]

Dueling is defiantly one of those masculain activities that makes all woman go "men are stupid"

Yeah, so, killing each other in an organized fight to resolve an argument that has nothing to do with your physical prowess is not actually resolving an argument.

Dueling is stupid.

You're   just jealous because when you  show up at   the cotillion in the same dress as another gal all you get to indulge in is a cat-fight!!

[BlueStarLizzard]

You're   just jealous because when you  show up at   the cotillion in the same dress as another gal all you get to indulge in is a cat-fight!!

*snort* you underestimate my skills.

I subtly destroy the other girls dress in a way that I cannot be blamed for, and then I sympathetically assist her to the exit so she can go home.

This is how you properly destroy your enemies and, bonus, nobody dies or goes to jail.

[TommyGunn]

*snort* you underestimate my skills.

I subtly destroy the other girls dress in a way that I cannot be blamed for, and then I sympathetically assist her to the exit so she can go home.

This is how you properly destroy your enemies and, bonus, nobody dies or goes to jail.

The female  J. R. Ewing, eh? ......right.

[Angel Eyes]

Any gentleman here will lend you a sword 

Use of a s-what?

[RoadKingLarry]

Are you purposefully being dense?

He is your density

[BlueStarLizzard]

The female  J. R. Ewing, eh? ......right.

It's a good thing for you old farts that us youngens have access to Google so we can keep up with your pop culture references.

[Tallpine]

He is your density

I'm just stuck in 1955 

[Hawkmoon]

This is how you properly destroy your enemies and, bonus, nobody dies or goes to jail.

Well, what fun is that?