Random "Walking Dead" question

[K Frame]

"Why?  If you are fighting zombies in a way that requires silence...you are doing it wrong."

No, you're doing it absolutely wrong if you're blasting away with something that will essentially be a dinner bell for zombies to home in on you from every damned direction at the same time.

Do it smartly, and you can control the time and placement, but you're not going to be able to do that with things that go boom loudly.

[MechAg94]

That really depends on if being quiet makes a difference.  Most stories have zombies as either smelling people or essentially hybernating until someone comes around. 

[K Frame]

Let's see...

Walking Dead episode 1.

Morgan: "You do know they'll hear the shot... they're drawn to sound"

Rick: "Then let's not be around."

Next to last episode of season 4...

Rick stabs Shane to death.

Shane reanimates.

Carl kills Zombie Shane.

Passing heard of zombies turns, enmasse, and wipes out the farm.



I gotta say, the historical video records (see what I did there?) are compelling on the matter...

[Jamisjockey]

That really depends on if being quiet makes a difference.  Most stories have zombies as either smelling people or essentially hybernating until someone comes around. 

In the TWD universe, they are attracted to sound.  Verified in the comics and the show.

[Jamisjockey]

Let's see...

Walking Dead episode 1.

Morgan: "You do know they'll hear the shot... they're drawn to sound"

Rick: "Then let's not be around."

Next to last episode of season 4...

Rick stabs Shane to death.

Shane reanimates.

Carl kills Zombie Shane.

Passing heard of zombies turns, enmasse, and wipes out the farm.



I gotta say, the historical video records (see what I did there?) are compelling on the matter...

Remember the helicopter crash?  Even Michone's pets were drawn to the sound of the crash.

[JonnyB]

Oh in one of Larry Corriea's MH books, the protagonist makes good use of a giant snow blower

A Klaas sileage chopper would do nicely. (Google is your friend.)

jb

[charby]

A Klaas sileage chopper would do nicely. (Google is your friend.)

jb

Same problem as a corn head on a combine, designed for rows of 1-2" diameter plants. Probably get eaten in the cab.

[birdman]

"Why?  If you are fighting zombies in a way that requires silence...you are doing it wrong."

No, you're doing it absolutely wrong if you're blasting away with something that will essentially be a dinner bell for zombies to home in on you from every damned direction at the same time.

Do it smartly, and you can control the time and placement, but you're not going to be able to do that with things that go boom loudly.

Did you entirely miss my post?  That is THE WHOLE POINT.  If they are drawn to sound you can do both...draw them when you want them, then draw them away. 
Choose an elevated position, draw them in, the more the better, blast away. Then have position 2 start to draw them there...or have a third remote controlled position draw them from both.

[41magsnub]

I think you guys are in different phases on the zombie apocalypse.  Irwin is in the sneaking around phase trying to get to safety or do some recon phase (noise bad).  Birdman is in the in safety and it is time to get on with cleaning up the mess phase (noise useful).

[K Frame]

Your point seems to be that all zombie-human interactions will, at all times, happen in a completely controlled and crafted environment in which the deck is stacked 100% in favor of the hardened, emplaced, well supplied, well coordinated, humans.

MacArthurian thinking at its worst, really.

Ain't gonna happen, as reality (and a zombie) has a way of popping up and biting you in the ass when you least expect it.


Lord, don't you love how passionate we get about topics that are complete and total mythmaking? 

[Blakenzy]

Lord, don't you love how passionate we get about topics that are complete and total mythmaking? 

Yeah, mythmaking 

[birdman]

Your point seems to be that all zombie-human interactions will, at all times, happen in a completely controlled and crafted environment in which the deck is stacked 100% in favor of the hardened, emplaced, well supplied, well coordinated, humans.

MacArthurian thinking at its worst, really.

Ain't gonna happen, as reality (and a zombie) has a way of popping up and biting you in the ass when you least expect it.


Lord, don't you love how passionate we get about topics that are complete and total mythmaking?  

I actually think it's totally uncontrolled.  The whole point is a strategy that requires minimal people to control an extremely large area with minimal resources, and as more resources become available, expand that to eliminate the threat.

The whole point about water towers is (and also why they are never used in movies):
1. They are tall
2. They have limited access (single ladder usually, easy to remove/block)
3. Other than the ladder, they have nearly impossible to climb supports
4. THEY ARE FULL OF WATER--by far the heaviest and yet most needed supply
5. Their catwalk enables a simple lean-to to be constructed
6. Height enables drawing z from far away
7. Two within mutual sound of shot range means leapfrog back-and-forth strategy is possible
8. They are fire resistant meaning "set fire to Zeds at the base" is, while normally a bad tactic, actually a reasonable one.
9. Large top-area means lots of space to lay out solar panels w/ zero shade and optimum angles
10. Height enables easy and efficient installation of wind generator
11. Helo's can land on them
12. Height improves radio and observation range.

Anyway, macarthurian is a bit harsh.

[mtnbkr]

Funny you mention water towers as that was a strategy used in the 2nd to last DJ Molles "zombie" series.  It also resulted in one of the main characters being severely injured (hint, no maintenance in the apocalypse).

Chris

[TommyGunn]

I actually think it's totally uncontrolled.  The whole point is a strategy that requires minimal people to control an extremely large area with minimal resources, and as more resources become available, expand that to eliminate the threat.

The whole point about water towers is (and also why they are never used in movies):
1. They are tall
2. They have limited access (single ladder usually, easy to remove/block)
3. Other than the ladder, they have nearly impossible to climb supports
4. THEY ARE FULL OF WATER--by far the heaviest and yet most needed supply
5. Their catwalk enables a simple lean-to to be constructed
6. Height enables drawing z from far away
7. Two within mutual sound of shot range means leapfrog back-and-forth strategy is possible
8. They are fire resistant meaning "set fire to Zeds at the base" is, while normally a bad tactic, actually a reasonable one.
9. Large top-area means lots of space to lay out solar panels w/ zero shade and optimum angles
10. Height enables easy and efficient installation of wind generator
11. Helo's can land on them
12. Height improves radio and observation range.

Anyway, macarthurian is a bit harsh.

Any helo landing on that would slide right off .... and I wouldn't be too keen on being the one to be placing solar panels on it, either.

[MechAg94]

I though water towers were fed by pumps and drained out to the water system.  Can you shut a valve and hold the water in there?  I figured it would be drained out after and apocalypse. 

[Scout26]

I actually think it's totally uncontrolled.  The whole point is a strategy that requires minimal people to control an extremely large area with minimal resources, and as more resources become available, expand that to eliminate the threat.

The whole point about water towers is (and also why they are never used in movies):
1. They are tall
2. They have limited access (single ladder usually, easy to remove/block)
3. Other than the ladder, they have nearly impossible to climb supports
4. THEY ARE FULL OF WATER--by far the heaviest and yet most needed supply
5. Their catwalk enables a simple lean-to to be constructed
6. Height enables drawing z from far away
7. Two within mutual sound of shot range means leapfrog back-and-forth strategy is possible
8. They are fire resistant meaning "set fire to Zeds at the base" is, while normally a bad tactic, actually a reasonable one.
9. Large top-area means lots of space to lay out solar panels w/ zero shade and optimum angles
10. Height enables easy and efficient installation of wind generator
11. Helo's can land on them
12. Height improves radio and observation range.

1. Agreed
2. Agreed
3. Agreed.
4. Maybe.   If you get there before the pumps shut off.  Because once they do, the water will be drained fairly quickly.  Also getting the water out, (at a trickle as opposed to a rush) might also be tricky.
5.  Some don't have catwalks around the bottom of the tower.
6. Agreed.
7. Agreed.
8. Not really, especially if still filled with water.  A good hot fire (or improvised explosives) around a base leg or two may be enough to weaken them and cause a collapse.
9.  Maybe
10. Maybe
11. Helo's can hover over them, but they aren't designed to support that additional weight, nor would one be able to not slide off.
12. Agreed.

[Marnoot]

Just get one of these to reach over your perimeter fence and take care of business:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYKg0gbRFns&t=15s

[K Frame]

Here's my issue with the concept of using a water tower...

1. They're virtually always singles. I can't think of any I've ever seen that have been paired. That's because of their very purpose. They serve a community, or a small segment of a community, and having multiple towers in the same location isn't necessary.

2. Virtually all water towers are domed. Pretty much impossible to land a helicopter on one.

3. By virtue of the fact that they're single placement, if you run out of ammo, but not out of zombies, you're screwed.

The types of towers that you do see in multiple placements near enough to be self supporting are generally not the ones you'd want to try this with -- they contain natural gas, oil, gasoline... things that go boom when not treated right. Those are generally the flat-top kind of containers.

[birdman]

Here's my issue with the concept of using a water tower...

1. They're virtually always singles. I can't think of any I've ever seen that have been paired. That's because of their very purpose. They serve a community, or a small segment of a community, and having multiple towers in the same location isn't necessary.

2. Virtually all water towers are domed. Pretty much impossible to land a helicopter on one.

3. By virtue of the fact that they're single placement, if you run out of ammo, but not out of zombies, you're screwed.

The types of towers that you do see in multiple placements near enough to be self supporting are generally not the ones you'd want to try this with -- they contain natural gas, oil, gasoline... things that go boom when not treated right. Those are generally the flat-top kind of containers.

Multiple, separated by MILES.  Every town I've lived in, if I went to my roof, I could see at least two.  I just mapped the ones here and back home, less than 3-5 miles separation.  About air-raid siren range.
as for the domed aspect, I wasn't thinking land and sit, I was thinking hover-"land" to deliver/retrieve...like they do on mountain tops, mountain sides, etc.

As for the shut off valve aspect...given that you don't care if it re-opens. Access the tower, cover the drain hole with stuff and weight it down.  Done...shut off.

Natural gas or oil in an elevated tower?  Huh?  Wtf?  Have you EVER seen a tower that looks like the one in my pic hold anything but water?  Because if so, I want to imprison the idiot that did that.

[birdman]

1. Agreed
2. Agreed
3. Agreed.
4. Maybe.   If you get there before the pumps shut off.  Because once they do, the water will be drained fairly quickly.  Also getting the water out, (at a trickle as opposed to a rush) might also be tricky.
5.  Some don't have catwalks around the bottom of the tower.
6. Agreed.
7. Agreed.
8. Not really, especially if still filled with water.  A good hot fire (or improvised explosives) around a base leg or two may be enough to weaken them and cause a collapse.
9.  Maybe
10. Maybe
11. Helo's can hover over them, but they aren't designed to support that additional weight, nor would one be able to not slide off.
12. Agreed.

4. You mean...like a bucket and rope?
5. Some dont, others do...maybe our protagonists aren't complete morons and actually look before choosing?
8. A BODY fire, not an airplane.  And they do get brush fires around them without any issues

[roo_ster]

Newer water towers around here are more flat-topped without a guard rail.



Some of the older ones are "slicks" unsuitable for zombie-amelioration operations.



Note those two above are pretty impervious to fire due to the thick steel or reinforced concrete stem.

Others are more old-school.
Like this big flipping tower.


Or this small older tower


But yes, most zombie flicks and teevee shows revolve around an idiot plot:

Idiot Plot: Any plot containing problems that would be solved instantly if all of the characters were not idiots.

Or second-order idiot plot:

Damon Knight, in In Search of Wonder, attributes the first use of the term to science fiction author and critic James Blish.[1] Knight went on to coin the term second-order idiot plot, "in which not merely the principals, but everybody in the whole society has to be a grade-A idiot, or the story couldn't happen.

I find most, but not all, zombie entertainment trying because of the idiot plot issue,

[K Frame]

Read what i said about oil and gas towers again. You read it incorrectly.

As for a helicopter and a domed tower, think high wind downwash and slick curving surfaces. But I guess the catwalk would catch you.

[MechAg94]

Seems to me you would be better finding something that was high enough to be clear of zombies, but had a level low enough to use a spear or other hand weapon to take out zombies.  That would help with the ammo issue though it would mean more work, sweat, and water use.

[K Frame]

The prison that the Walking Dead crowd holed up in was actually a very good place to be. Good perimeter fences (that they did a crap job of reinforcing) and hardened buildings. I would have reinforced the perimeter fence with stanchions and cables on the outside, not poles on the inside, and I would have woven the fence with electric cable or wire rope to give the chain link added strength.

I also would have used cable to build a three strand perimeter barrier a few feet out from the chain link as a breakwater, as it were, which would take a huge amount of stress off the chainlink, but it would still be close enough to use spears to kill the Zeds.

[Jamisjockey]

The prison that the Walking Dead crowd holed up in was actually a very good place to be. Good perimeter fences (that they did a crap job of reinforcing) and hardened buildings. I would have reinforced the perimeter fence with stanchions and cables on the outside, not poles on the inside, and I would have woven the fence with electric cable or wire rope to give the chain link added strength.

I also would have used cable to build a three strand perimeter barrier a few feet out from the chain link as a breakwater, as it were, which would take a huge amount of stress off the chainlink, but it would still be close enough to use spears to kill the Zeds.

They had a water barrier around the prison if IIRC, or at least water on one or more sides.  A small creek/canal.  Good barrier to channel the flow of zeds.

They should have cleared the trees back further from the fence, especially along the road.

The other thing I like about the prison is that you have individual rooms...er, cells.  So you leave them unlocked but require everyone to close doors at night.  If someone dies, they are now contained in their cell. 

rooster posted a pic of a large watertower, the real big one.  That would have potential as a shelter.  Once the water has drained, the inside could be converted to living quarters.
 At least as an op/lp setup.

I get where birdman is going with using towers for drawing and dispersing crowds.  My only concern would be if getting them to wander away is not effective, you're trapped without helo support.