Author Topic: New laptop skool me.  (Read 2885 times)

never_retreat

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New laptop skool me.
« on: December 01, 2015, 11:11:25 PM »
Time for a new lappy. I don't have an unlimited budget so price is a concern.
Till the end off the week the wife has some promo thing through her company that is owned by blackstone equity. So Some deals on lenovo and dell. My last 3 laptops have all been think pads and I have had good luck with them.
So there are choices in windows but it looks like almost all are shipping with 10. Would I be better with 8? Consider I fear change and still run xp on most my stuff.
SSD hard drives I thought were going to be all the rage, but it seams like there only putting them in the high end units.

Chips I don't even know where to start on these.

how much ram do I need to not be a pig with current os's?

I don't drag it around much so weight is not a big deal. I would like 15" like by current one. I don't need a big screen.

Should I consider a different brand as well?
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Boomhauer

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Re: New laptop skool me.
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2015, 11:19:12 PM »
A few months ago I grabbed a refurb HP business class Mobile Workstation off of Woot for $3. I have been pretty damn pleased with it. Heavy duty performance, rugged chassis, for the cost of a consumer grade cheapie.

Oh and it came with Windows 7 Pro. Winning!

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Brad Johnson

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Re: New laptop skool me.
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2015, 11:19:24 PM »
Would I be better with 8?

Short answer: No.
Long asnswer: OH! HELL! NO!

If it's a general-use machine for everyday browsing, email, light accounting/office/business duty, most any prepackaged $500-600 unit will likely do everything you need and much, much more. That market segment is uber competitive so kinda hard to go wrong no matter the manufacturer.

Don't obsess over chipsets, cards, etc., unless you have an app or piece of equipment calling for something specific.

Brad
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Hawkmoon

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Re: New laptop skool me.
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2015, 02:29:42 AM »
I've bought my last several laptops (for me and my wife) from Toshiba Direct. They still allow you to customize some models with Windows 7, if that rocks your world.

http://us.toshiba.com/windows-7-laptops

This one looks good: http://us.toshiba.com/computers/laptops/tecra/a50/A50-ASMBNX9
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zxcvbob

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Re: New laptop skool me.
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2015, 02:49:53 AM »
I recently bought a refurb 15" Thinkpad for Wife for about $300 (they don't have many 15's, most are 14").  Windows 7 Pro, i5 processor, 8GB of RAM, 500GB hard drive.  1 year warranty.  Very little bloatware installed (just Lotus Symphony)

I'm looking at desktops for my mom.  Similar specs for a little over $200 (no display)
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K Frame

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Re: New laptop skool me.
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2015, 05:32:39 AM »
If you don't mind a used machine, both HP and Dell have trade in units for sale on their websites.
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KD5NRH

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Re: New laptop skool me.
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2015, 11:01:58 AM »
how much ram do I need to not be a pig with current os's?

Fill the known universe and Microsoft will find a way to handle it poorly.  OSs are essentially gaseous, and will expand to misuse whatever is available.

HeroHog

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Re: New laptop skool me.
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2015, 11:31:37 AM »
I have used Dell and HP and like them both.

As for Winders, 7? Sure BUT it IS at the end of it's life-cycle. 10? No problems here, I like it. 8? NFW! Avoid like the Plague! Run Away! Run Away!

CPU: No AMD, Intel only. In the Intel line, no crippled processors like those Celeron were. Get the good stuff.

RAM: More is ALWAYS better! 4 at the absolute MINIMUM! I want to say 6 but some may say that is just me being me...

Bloatware: When ya first fire that sucker up, go to the Control Panel and uninstall all the garbage you will never use and don't want in the first place! If ya have any questions, ASK!
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AJ Dual

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Re: New laptop skool me.
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2015, 12:03:28 PM »
Something like this is a good deal. And very often, they're gently treated by some business user, and often they sat on someone's desk in a docking station 99% of the time and were rarely travelled at all.

http://www.amazon.com/Dell-Latitude-Premium-Built-Professional-Refurbished/dp/B016RJ16G4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1449075476&sr=8-2&keywords=dell+latitude+refurbished+laptops+i7

The corporate/enterprise class Dell's have metal chassis, and more discrete components that can be replaced if they fail, keyboards and trackpads come out with just 1-2 screws and a small ribbon connector etc. Just better all around constructed. We have a very low failure rate with these Latitudes at my work where we have several hundred of them. Consumer loss-leader laptops are generally much more cheaply constructed, more plastic, weaker hinges chintzier keyboards lower powered Pentium etc. And if my kids are any kind of guide for "hard use" they tend to break or wear out their laptops mechanically way faster than there's any kind of electronic failure.

The only thing I'd go for is probably 8gig for Windows 10 and smoother applications/multitasking, but otherwise I'd be happy with this.  It's 3-4x the laptop of anything consumer priced at $300-400 range.
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HeroHog

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Re: New laptop skool me.
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2015, 12:24:32 PM »
PS: On solid state hard drives: They lose sectors over time. This is "normal" right now and they self compensate for this so if amazing speed and the fact that no head will ever impact a spinning platter is a huge plus for ya, they rock. It's just something to be aware of. I'm not sure of what the rate/time of degradation is off the top of my head but it was enough to be brought up in a technical review I read on it a while back.
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never_retreat

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Re: New laptop skool me.
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2015, 12:27:19 PM »
About the OS's I figured 10 was buggy thats why I thought about 8.
I've never used 8 or 10 at all. Hence my fear.
Also whats the differences between the home/pro versions? Are they like the old xp home that would not join a domain?
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KD5NRH

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Re: New laptop skool me.
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2015, 12:30:37 PM »
PS: On solid state hard drives: They lose sectors over time. This is "normal" right now and they self compensate for this so if amazing speed and the fact that no head will ever impact a spinning platter is a huge plus for ya, they rock. It's just something to be aware of. I'm not sure of what the rate/time of degradation is off the top of my head but it was enough to be brought up in a technical review I read on it a while back.

I'm looking into one for the work desktop, but if I had one in a laptop, I'd probably want to back up daily to an external HDD.  As for the desktop, it'll be keeping its 2TB HDD, and possibly adding another one in addition to an SSD big enough to handle the stuff I use daily.  Essentially, everything on the SSD will be backed up to the spinny drive, and any files that haven't been used in x days will be removed from it.  (Essentially, I want only the stuff I'm likely to open again soon on it, which is current customer files and the software used to open them.)

Brad Johnson

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Re: New laptop skool me.
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2015, 12:33:10 PM »
If you've used XP or 7 then you should be able to navigate 10 with no problem. Migrated Dad's machine from 7 to 10 over the holiday. He's not tech savvy at all and was VERY apprehensive. After the upgrade his exact comment was, "Are you sure it's all new? I don't see much difference." He was able to use it with zero learning curve.

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cambeul41

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Re: New laptop skool me.
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2015, 12:51:42 PM »
I quite like Win 10, but needed to down load a new driver for my Dell wireless keyboard which shouldn't be necessary with a new machine and needed to download updated firmware for my Netgear router. If I were buying a new machine, I would definitely want Win 10.
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zxcvbob

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Re: New laptop skool me.
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2015, 01:22:05 PM »
If you have older printers (and maybe scanners) you might not be able to find drivers for W10.
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lee n. field

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Re: New laptop skool me.
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2015, 01:39:39 PM »
Time for a new lappy. I don't have an unlimited budget so price is a concern.
Till the end off the week the wife has some promo thing through her company that is owned by blackstone equity. So Some deals on lenovo and dell. My last 3 laptops have all been think pads and I have had good luck with them.
So there are choices in windows but it looks like almost all are shipping with 10. Would I be better with 8?

Absofriggenlutly.  8 is "of de debbil".

I like 7.  I'll have to work with 10, I guess.  With 8 I'll work with it until it looks and acts like 7, to the extent possible.

Quote
Consider I fear change and still run xp on most my stuff.
SSD hard drives I thought were going to be all the rage, but it seams like there only putting them in the high end units.

Chips I don't even know where to start on these.

how much ram do I need to not be a pig with current os's?

No less than 4GB.  More if possible.

Quote
I don't drag it around much so weight is not a big deal. I would like 15" like by current one. I don't need a big screen.

Should I consider a different brand as well?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 05:28:12 PM by lee n. field »
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AJ Dual

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Re: New laptop skool me.
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2015, 01:48:54 PM »
PS: On solid state hard drives: They lose sectors over time. This is "normal" right now and they self compensate for this so if amazing speed and the fact that no head will ever impact a spinning platter is a huge plus for ya, they rock. It's just something to be aware of. I'm not sure of what the rate/time of degradation is off the top of my head but it was enough to be brought up in a technical review I read on it a while back.

It's generally low enough that by the time sector loss has become an issue with a noticeable loss in capacity a metal platter HDD would have failed or worn out for most applications.

As to actual annualized failure rates, or MBTF numbers, it's kind of apples and oranges right now. But nothing is really sticking out like a sore thumb either way. As HeroHog notes, they're definitely NOT susceptible to head crashes if moved, dropped, jostled etc. Long term use, with data types and use that kind of negates the SSD's own built in wear-leveling algorithms and firmware, a high quality HDD will possibly last longer.


Within the obsolescence/replacement curve for your PC/laptop (That IBM workstation Gewher98 has kept running forever notwithstanding) , there's probably no functional difference, it's shorter than either the averages at which HDD or SSD's will spontaneously fail, then the one factor for me is performance. The SSD is much faster, so it wins.

Deep long term storage, family photos etc. should be on mirrored or higher RAID level high capacity HDD's, with some kind of offsite option that you synch every half year or so as a hedge against house fires, tornado, flood etc.

That's at least how I look at it.


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KD5NRH

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Re: New laptop skool me.
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2015, 01:49:30 PM »
If you have older printers (and maybe scanners) you might not be able to find drivers for W10.

And yet there is a driver for my old Oki ML320.  Might have to dig it out of storage.

zxcvbob

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Re: New laptop skool me.
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2015, 01:52:05 PM »
Mom needs a new desktop computer.  They are so cheap, I'm thinking about getting one too and installing a good graphics card to use for gaming.  Is the Windows 7 end-of-life in 2020 a legit concern?  Weighing that against my distrust of Win10 (I upgraded one laptop that I don't use much to 10)
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Re: New laptop skool me.
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2015, 03:29:26 PM »
Unless yer software and hardware is Old, ya shouldn't fear 10. Fear 8. If ya have 7 and distrust 10, hang with 7 till ya trust 10.

I upgraded 8 Home and 7 Pro machines on the same Home network to 10 (free) without issues. No tweaking ir geeking needed. I wouldn't fear it myself. My printers are pretty old. A HP LaserJet 5 Duplexing printer and  a HP InkJet C4795 Multifunction Color Scanner/Printer/FAX that Duplexes.
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Ben

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Re: New laptop skool me.
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2015, 04:27:56 PM »
I've been very happy with both the Lenovos I currently have. I like my W530 workstation much better than my old Dell Mobile Workstation from work.

Lots of good deals out there though. Personally, if it was my only computer, I'd look for one with an I-5 or I-7 (if the price is right) processor or whatever the current AMD equivalent is, to ensure you can run everything (like games if you're in to that) without lag. SDDs are getting pretty standard now, but still sometimes more expensive coming from the computer manufacturer. If you find something you like with a mechanical HDD for cheap, you can always upgrade to SDD later. After market ones are getting really cheap - around $100 for 500gigs.

4 gigs of RAM will do you for most any common tasks, especially when coupled with an SDD and good processor. If you find you need more though, it's also cheap and easy to upgrade. Be aware that some lower priced laptops, especially with Atom processors, often have non-upgradeable RAM, or only one available slot, with the other module being soldered in.
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Phantom Warrior

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Re: New laptop skool me.
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2015, 07:43:19 PM »
If it's a general-use machine for everyday browsing, email, light accounting/office/business duty, most any prepackaged $500-600 unit will likely do everything you need and much, much more. That market segment is uber competitive so kinda hard to go wrong no matter the manufacturer.

Don't obsess over chipsets, cards, etc., unless you have an app or piece of equipment calling for something specific.

There is a lot of good advice in this thread so I'll try and avoid being redundant.  But this really bears repeating.  I worked in a small computer sales/repair place for the last year.  I probably sold a $600 computer to low tech users for these kinds of uses once a month and they were always very pleased.  That'll comfortably get you an Intel i3 processor, 4GB of RAM, and a 500GB hard drive.  Which is plenty for most people.

With a little searching or a little extra cash you can easily upgrade that.  I bought my current computer at a Microcenter three years ago for that price and got 8GB of RAM and a 750GB hard drive.  I would probably prioritize RAM first, the processor second, and hard drive last. 

Windows 7 is a pretty darn reliable and user friendly OS.  All the computers I've sold have been Windows 7 because 8 is such a pain.  The upgrade to 10 has been a little buggy.  But it is getting better and I probably wouldn't be concerned about getting a new computer with a clean install of 10 on it.

I use an 8.1 machine at work and I discovered a program called Classic Shell that makes it probably 90% more tolerable.  Classic Shell is a little program that gives you a Windows 7 style Start Menu on a Windows 8 or 10 machine.  No big stupid block icons, no stupid swoopy displays.  Just a simple, clean interface.  Need to use a Windows 8 feature you right-click Start, exit Classic Shell, and do what you need to do.  When you are finished you go to your apps, click Classic Shell, and you are back to normal.

What AJ Dual said about business class laptops being sturdier and more reliable is spot on.  I'll also add the matte, no glare screen is surprisingly enjoyable if you get one.  Much easier on the eyes.  I prefer HP and Dell myself.  Their business lines are HP ProBook and EliteBook and Dell Latitude.

On SSDs, everyone I know who has gotten one loved it.  They are going to cost a little more for your storage.  I'd say you'll get about four times as much storage for your money with a regular HDD.  Ben pegged a 500GB SSD for $100.  For that same $100 you could get a 2TB HDD.  It comes down to whether you want speed or storage.  You can always have both with an SSD in your laptop and a cheap external HDD for storage.


This is a little beyond the scope of your question but I'll include it.  Read it if you find it relevant, ignore it if not.  If you are looking to the future as far as upgrades.  Either for improved performance later or to spread out the cost of the laptop you eventually want.  You generally can't upgrade laptop processors, period.  They usually are very specific to that model and are often soldered to the motherboard.  So the processor you buy now is the one you are stuck with.  The hard drive is an easy replacement but will require some technical know how to reinstall your operating system and copy your files over.  This would be a cheap repair at a computer shop or something a tech savy friend could do for you, if you have the right disk.  RAM is almost always super simple to upgrade.  Take off a panel, pop out the old RAM, pop in the new RAM.  You could probably do it yourself.

never_retreat

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Re: New laptop skool me.
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2015, 10:53:53 PM »
Well its ordered.

Quote

 
Item:
ThinkPad W550s Mobile Workstation
 

• Intel Core i7-5500U Processor (4MB Cache, up to 3.00GHz)
• Windows 10 Pro 64
• Windows 10 Pro 64 English
• 15.6" FHD (1920 x 1080), with WWAN
• NVIDIA Quadro K620M 2GB
• 8GB PC3-12800 DDR3L (2 DIMM)
• ThinkPad New Precision Backlit Keyboard with Number Pad US English
• 720p HD Camera
• 500GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm, 2.5"
• 16 GB Solid State Drive, Serial ATA3 ,Single
• ThinkPad Battery 6 cell Li-Ion (47Whr) Cylindrical
• 65W AC Adapter - US (2pin)
• Intel 7265 AC/B/G/N Dual Band Wireless + Bluetooth Version 4.0
• Integrated Mobile Broadband upgradable
• Publication - US English
• 1 Year Depot or Carry-in
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Ben

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Re: New laptop skool me.
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2015, 10:58:31 PM »
So much for you being on a budget. :P  =D

For what it's worth, I've read that people are WAY happier with the 550s than the 540s. People who upgraded from the 520-530s were disappointed with the changes to the 540. Supposedly Lenovo listened and improved the 550.
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HeroHog

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Re: New laptop skool me.
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2015, 11:04:26 PM »
You will be pleased with what ya get.
I might not last very long or be very effective but I'll be a real pain in the ass for a minute!
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