Author Topic: Car trouble (Read 9649 times)

Brad Johnson · « **Reply #50 on:** February 02, 2016, 10:59:00 AM »

Did your compression tester come with an air line adapter fitting. With your latest findings it would be a good idea to do a pressure test on the cylinder.

Brad

KD5NRH · « **Reply #51 on:** February 02, 2016, 11:32:02 AM »

Quote from: Brad Johnson on February 02, 2016, 10:59:00 AM

Did your compression tester come with an air line adapter fitting. With your latest findings it would be a good idea to do a pressure test on the cylinder.

Not an inline; it's got what appears to be a regular airline QD connecting the gauge to the hose, but it's the wrong end to hook to the shop hose. I guess if we've got some spare QDs laying around, I could rig it to one of the tire chucks that has a built in gauge. I'll have to look.

I'm assuming you mean just push some air into the cylinder and see how fast it leaks down. Still doesn't show whether it's going through the intake, exhaust or rings, though, which is what I'm really wondering at this point. (Still mostly assuming exhaust, given the paper test results.)

Brad Johnson · « **Reply #52 on:** February 02, 2016, 12:08:07 PM »

Pressurize the cylinder while it's on the compression stroke (both valves closed). If you hear air hissing out the intake, it's an intake valve problem. Coming out the exhaust side, exhaust valve. Coming out the crankcase vent/oil cap or bubbling out the radiator, head gasket.

Brad

KD5NRH · « **Reply #53 on:** February 02, 2016, 12:46:38 PM »

Quote from: Brad Johnson on February 02, 2016, 12:08:07 PM

Pressurize the cylinder while it's on the compression stroke (both valves closed). If you hear air hissing out the intake, it's an intake valve problem. Coming out the exhaust side, exhaust valve. Coming out the crankcase vent/oil cap or bubbling out the radiator, head gasket.

Might have a taper plug somewhere around here good enough to hold it in and try that up to whatever pressure I can hold it at. Unfortunately, if I'm right about the valve just being slow*, that would still fail to show it, but that's all I can come up with that would cause effectively zero compression yet have both valves looking normal on inspection and the rings not letting the Sea Foam dumping straight into the crankcase.

*Slow, in this sense, meaning that it doesn't fully close in the milliseconds available during the running cycle, but does in the half second or more that it will have when manually turning the crank or the seconds between bumping the starter and getting a good look at the stem position. Definitely thinking about a digital borescope, as recording the action on a starter crank might show a slow close, and the darn thing would just be handy for lots of other stuff.

ETA, plenty of $25 and under 640x480 3-6 foot borescopes on Amazon. Anybody here used any of them? Not trying to check the hatching in the cylinders, and most other tasks would be along the lines of "is there something in this hole just beyond where I can see that shouldn't be, or something missing that should be there" so I don't see much point in paying significantly more for high res and/or a 30' reach.

Brad Johnson · « **Reply #54 on:** February 02, 2016, 01:03:43 PM »

Watching actuation with the valve cover off would give MkI Eyeball resolution as well as giving a glimps of the remaining valvetrain.

Brad

brimic · « **Reply #55 on:** February 02, 2016, 01:14:57 PM »

Quote from: Brad Johnson on February 02, 2016, 01:03:43 PM

Watching actuation with the valve cover off would give MkI Eyeball resolution as well as giving a glimps of the remaining valvetrain.

Brad

+1

KD5NRH · « **Reply #56 on:** February 02, 2016, 01:42:14 PM »

Quote from: Brad Johnson on February 02, 2016, 01:03:43 PM

Watching actuation with the valve cover off would give MkI Eyeball resolution as well as giving a glimps of the remaining valvetrain.

Been there, done that, and by the time I got enough oil off my face to look, the valve appeared to be as fully up as the other valves that were closed at the time. Hence my relative certainty that oil is flowing properly.

dogmush · « **Reply #57 on:** February 02, 2016, 04:30:56 PM »

Pop the valve cover and open each valve on the #1 cylinder by hand. You'll be able to feel if the valve is sticking.

KD5NRH · « **Reply #58 on:** February 02, 2016, 04:41:33 PM »

Quote from: dogmush on February 02, 2016, 04:30:56 PM

Pop the valve cover and open each valve on the #1 cylinder by hand. You'll be able to feel if the valve is sticking.

Sort of hard to do on an OHC with the cam in the way. Those springs are definitely still strong, though.

The home colonoscopy kit should be here Thursday, though.

dogmush · « **Reply #59 on:** February 02, 2016, 06:19:20 PM »

Quote from: KD5NRH on February 02, 2016, 04:41:33 PM

Sort of hard to do on an OHC with the cam in the way. Those springs are definitely still strong, though.

The home colonoscopy kit should be here Thursday, though.

Not really, just lever the cam followers down.

I'd be pretty surprised if you can see anything definitive on a $25 amazon borescope.

What kind of tools are you working with? I'd be at the point now where we quit messing around and pull the head. You know you have a complete loss of compression in one of the cylinders. like 85% of the things that cause that require pulling the head to fix.

KD5NRH · « **Reply #60 on:** February 02, 2016, 06:44:00 PM »

Quote from: dogmush on February 02, 2016, 06:19:20 PM

Not really, just lever the cam followers down.

Hard to get there around the cam. I'd need something along the lines of a right angle prybar to get in there and lever on them.

Quote

I'd be pretty surprised if you can see anything definitive on a $25 amazon borescope.

Maybe, but I think the boss is about due to have his ulcer checked anyway.

Quote

What kind of tools are you working with? I'd be at the point now where we quit messing around and pull the head. You know you have a complete loss of compression in one of the cylinders. like 85% of the things that cause that require pulling the head to fix.

It's right at the edge of the "screw this, strip it and call the scrapyard" range, not so much due to tools, but time constraints. Once the sun is staying up longer, it would be an option. Right now, I have maybe a half hour of usable light on weeknights, and a couple hours on Sundays. That means anything as in depth as getting a head back on, timing set, and all the miscellaneous crap reconnected and working right is pretty much a get up early Saturday and plan on working all day type job...which invariably turns into a throw a greasy towel over the sensitive bits and get to it next Saturday because nobody local has that thing you just broke in stock type job. Plus if I take the head off, I'll definitely want to add on the time to tap all the plug holes for Helicoil inserts. #2 snugs in solid, but on somewhat fewer good threads than the others. Of course, then my tendency to want to clean stuff right while I've got it apart will kick in and I'll be out there with a case of Brakleen and a brass brush. Figure 20-30 hours of actual work to do what ought to take 12 or so.

There is a floodlight in front of where I park, and I do have headlamps, but even with those, there's always a shadow right where I need light.

Honestly, if I had something else available right now, I'd park it on the boss's car hauler and start ripping parts off until it's ready to go to the scrapyard next door to work. $200 for that magic unicorn of a coil pack, $100-$150 for a set of five wheels, (including full size spare) and whatever I could get for the starter, alternator, etc. on eBay and Craigslist might well break even on the $500 I paid for it.

KD5NRH · « **Reply #61 on:** February 16, 2016, 03:24:08 PM »

Still no real progress. Prying on the valve stem as much as I could, I didn't feel any particular catching. Felt like all the others as far as I could tell. Still getting the definite pop at the exhaust that should be an indicator of a stuck exhaust valve, but looking at the valve train or gawking inside with the borescope showed the valve shut. Still holds fluid for a piston soak, so the rings aren't completely gone. To the extent that I can see with the scope, the hatching on the inside of the cylinder still looks ok.

At this point, I'm seriously considering just putting up a "help me get a reliable car" GoFundMe and see what I can manage that way.

bedlamite · « **Reply #62 on:** February 16, 2016, 04:59:55 PM »

Quote from: KD5NRH on February 02, 2016, 06:44:00 PM

Honestly, if I had something else available right now, I'd park it on the boss's car hauler and start ripping parts off until it's ready to go to the scrapyard next door to work. $200 for that magic unicorn of a coil pack, $100-$150 for a set of five wheels, (including full size spare) and whatever I could get for the starter, alternator, etc. on eBay and Craigslist might well break even on the $500 I paid for it.

This, plus headlight/taillight assemblies and assorted other commonly broken parts is probably your best bet. Or you could go with my original suggestion on page 1 ...

KD5NRH · « **Reply #63 on:** February 16, 2016, 05:21:46 PM »

Quote from: bedlamite on February 16, 2016, 04:59:55 PM

This, plus headlight/taillight assemblies and assorted other commonly broken parts is probably your best bet. Or you could go with my original suggestion on page 1 ...

Forgot about that; the driver side front turn signal is the plastic from some sort of trailer reflector glued over the busted original housing, but all the other light assemblies are in pretty good shape. Body is actually pretty good too, with only a couple of minor dents and horribly oxidized paint.

Actually seriously considering the GoFundMe option with a sweetener of giving this one away to someone who needs it, (surely someone needs a free car that will get across town, no matter how roughly) as well as spending overage from the campaign to replace the head, timing belt, rings, etc. first to whatever extent the overage would cover.

Hell, if it cleared $3500, I'd be tempted to offer to blow this one up with Tannerite on YouTube and buy/fix a better $500 beater for someone who needs it.

KD5NRH · « **Reply #64 on:** March 01, 2016, 10:35:33 PM »

Well hell. Got a pretty hefty cloud of blue smoke climbing the hill on the way home from mom's tonight, but then it stopped smoking. Thought maybe the head gasket went and it stopped smoking when it was out of oil, so was just going to limp it as far as it would go. Made it to about 3 miles from home and it was clear it wasn't going farther.

Got it into a parking lot and popped the hood just to see. Oil level is normal. Coolant normal in the balance tank. No indication of coolant in oil or vice versa. Temp gauge nowhere near redline at any point. No obvious signs of anything horrible, though it's sort of hard to tell since I never washed off all the oil splattered around from cranking it with the valve cover off, but if it had lost enough oil to just quit like that, it wouldn't still be in the upper half of the "OK" range on the dipstick.

Cranks, and will stutter a bit and then die, like it's not getting enough fuel. Can hear the fuel pump whir when the key is turned on, but haven't seen the usual Schrader valve anywhere on the rail to check pressure. Not dumping the $300+ cash for new injectors into this thing. Let it sit for ~30 minutes just to make sure it wasn't overheated. (I know the temp gauge will go higher than it was tonight, but I've never seen it actually redline, so thought maybe it was just far enough off to not show that.)

Brad Johnson · « **Reply #65 on:** March 02, 2016, 12:37:55 AM »

Blue smoke indicates a rich condition.

Brad

lupinus · « **Reply #66 on:** March 02, 2016, 12:52:18 AM »

I'm going with squirrels.

Sent from my iPhone. Freaking autocorrect.

HeroHog · « **Reply #67 on:** March 02, 2016, 12:35:25 PM »

in a gas burner black smoke is rich fuel, blue is engine oil, white is ATF and if light white, possibly water/antifreeze.

Blue/white smoke when 1st cranking or at idle is usually leaking valve stem seals. Blue/white smoke under acceleration is usually ring wear.

KD5NRH · « **Reply #68 on:** March 02, 2016, 12:47:11 PM »

Quote from: HeroHog on March 02, 2016, 12:35:25 PM

Blue/white smoke under acceleration is usually ring wear.

Definite possibility. Quite likely a "strip it and sell it" possibility, though, given the amount of work involved. Only $150-200 in parts, (including rod bearings since those are also unknown age) but just getting to the rings wouldn't be fun at all. If I had an engine hoist and stand, I'd seriously consider it, but as it stands, I'm not sure it wouldn't be easier (for very loose definitions of easy) to do it without pulling the block.

The odd question even then would still be why it made it another 3-4 miles after the smoke stopped before it choked.

HeroHog · « **Reply #69 on:** March 02, 2016, 12:51:19 PM »

If the rings are THAT bad, a simple hone and re-ring is probably not going to cut it. Ya are probably looking at a rebore and that means new pistons, rings, getting the rods swapped (probably press fit pins) so, $$$ added.

KD5NRH · « **Reply #70 on:** March 03, 2016, 10:57:22 AM »

Quote from: HeroHog on March 02, 2016, 12:51:19 PM

If the rings are THAT bad, a simple hone and re-ring is probably not going to cut it. Ya are probably looking at a rebore and that means new pistons, rings, getting the rods swapped (probably press fit pins) so, $$$ added.

Yeah, if I can get someone to haul it back to the house, I'll probably just plan on finding a junkyard pulled engine to rebuild for it. I'm definitely not planning to try to fix it up before I find something else. Most likely, though, I'd just part it out and scrap the rest.

Closest engine on car-part.com is in Tulsa and $450. Figure by the time I got done rebuilding it I'd have close to $1200 in the car, ($500 purchase, $450 engine, roughly $200 in other parts, not counting tools) and still wouldn't have done anything to the transmission or the rest of the car. For a project like that, I'd really rather find something that will end up a bit cooler than a faded 94 Sunbird. Every now and then there will be something nice on Craigslist that desperately needs a head gasket or timing belt, or some classic that has sat long enough to mostly just need to be taken apart, cleaned up and put back together with new gaskets and timing belt. If I'm going to put a few greasy weekends and the parts cost into it, I'd much rather end up with a rebuilt 240Z or Firebird.

Problem is, right now, I'm in the red from other issues. Will probably be 3-5 weeks before I can even spare $500 to grab another beater off Craigslist. It's only a 5 mile bike ride to work, but if the weather doesn't cooperate, that can really suck. I guess not buying gas will help with coming up with enough cash for something, but it's still not going to be fun. A crowdfunding attempt is sounding better and better right now.

KD5NRH · « **Reply #71 on:** March 03, 2016, 02:55:23 PM »

Well, hell. Can't hurt to try it.

If anybody wants to help out, https://www.youcaring.com/joe-bramblett-532611

HeroHog · « **Reply #72 on:** March 03, 2016, 04:17:48 PM »

YEARS back I needed a motor for a Chevy Luv (Mazda? Mitsubishi? Some Japanese rebadge job) mini p/u and there were companies that imported low milage Japanese engines from wrecked cars and sold them at real reasonable prices. WHOLE engines. The Japanese don't sell used car parts. They have laws against it IIRC. Call around/Google it and see what ya can come up with.

roo_ster · « **Reply #73 on:** March 03, 2016, 04:52:46 PM »

Quote from: KD5NRH on March 03, 2016, 02:55:23 PM

Well, hell. Can't hurt to try it.

If anybody wants to help out, https://www.youcaring.com/joe-bramblett-532611

Last year you could had a 1989 ford f150 4x4 for $500, nothing down, "make payments when you got the money" payment terms. This year, not so much, sorry.

KD5NRH · « **Reply #74 on:** March 03, 2016, 05:48:58 PM »

Quote from: HeroHog on March 03, 2016, 04:17:48 PM

YEARS back I needed a motor for a Chevy Luv (Mazda? Mitsubishi? Some Japanese rebadge job) mini p/u and there were companies that imported low milage Japanese engines from wrecked cars and sold them at real reasonable prices. WHOLE engines. The Japanese don't sell used car parts. They have laws against it IIRC. Call around/Google it and see what ya can come up with.

Not sure that would be much help with the Pontiac. AFAIK that LE4 was only in North and South America and some Korean industrial equipment.

Quote from: roo_ster on March 03, 2016, 04:52:46 PM

Last year you could had a 1989 ford f150 4x4 for $500, nothing down, "make payments when you got the money" payment terms. This year, not so much, sorry.

Deals are all over Craigslist. Just got to come up with some cash that's not already spent before I get it. Besides, a truck might leave me too tempted to get a car dolly and start flipping.

News:

Author Topic: Car trouble (Read 9649 times)