Author Topic: Big Brother gets bigger and even more intrusive  (Read 1383 times)

Preacherman

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Big Brother gets bigger and even more intrusive
« on: November 26, 2006, 03:57:37 AM »
From the Times, London (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2471987,00.html):

Quote
November 26, 2006

Word on the street ... theyre listening

Steven Swinford and Nicola Smith

POLICE and councils are considering monitoring conversations in the street using high-powered microphones attached to CCTV cameras.

The microphones can detect conversations 100 yards away and record aggressive exchanges before they become violent.

The devices are used at 300 sites in Holland and police, councils and transport officials in London have shown an interest in installing them before the 2012 Olympics.

The interest in the equipment comes amid growing concern that Britain is becoming a surveillance society. It was recently highlighted that there are more than 4.2m CCTV cameras, with the average person being filmed more than 300 times a day. The addition of microphones would take surveillance into uncharted territory.

The Association of Chief Police Officers has warned that a full public debate over the microphones impact on privacy will be needed before they can be introduced.

The equipment can pick up aggressive tones on the basis of 12 factors, including decibel level, pitch and the speed at which words are spoken. Background noise is filtered out, enabling the camera to focus on specific conversations in public places.

If the aggressive behaviour continues, police can intervene before an incident escalates. Privacy laws in Holland limit the recording of sound to short bursts. Derek van der Vorst, director of Sound Intelligence, the company that created the technology, said: It is technically capable of being live 24 hours a day and recording 24 hours a day. It really depends on the privacy laws in a particular country.

Last month Martin Nanninga of VCS Observation, the Dutch company marketing the technology, gave a presentation to officials from Transport for London, the Metropolitan police and the City of London police about the CCTV system. Nanninga is to return next year for further discussions.

There was a lot of interest in our system, especially with security concerns about the Olympic Games in 2012. We told them about both our intelligent control room and the aggression detection system, Nanninga said.

In Holland more than 300 of the cameras have been fitted in Groningen, Utrecht and Rotterdam. Locations include city centres, benefit offices, jails, and even T-Mobile shops. The sensitivity of the microphones is adjusted to suit the situation.

Police and local council officials are still assessing their impact on crime, although in an initial six-week trial in Groningen last year the cameras raised 70 genuine alarms, resulting in four arrests.

Harry Hoetjer, head of surveillance at Groningen police headquarters, recalled an incident where the camera had homed in on a gang of four men who were about to attack a passer-by. We would not normally have detected it as there was no camera directly viewing it, he said.

Last Friday a Sunday Times reporter visited the office of Sound Intelligence in Groningen to test the system. The reporter stood in the control centre with a view of an empty room on one of a bank of monitors. Van der Vorst entered the room, out of sight of the camera, and began making aggressive noises.

The camera swivelled to film him and an alarm went off in the control room, designed to alert police to a possible incident. The cameras work on the principle that in an aggressive situation the pitch goes up and the words are spoken faster, said van der Vorst. The voice is not the normal flat tone, but vibrates. It is these subtle changes that our audio cameras can pick up on.

Public prosecution services can use them in court as evidence. The Dutch privacy board has already given its approval to the system.

According to a spokesman for Richard Thomas, Britains information commissioner, sound recorded by the cameras would be treated under British law in the same way as CCTV footage. Under the commissioners code of practice, audio can be recorded for the detection, prevention of crime and apprehension and prosecution of offenders. It cannot be used for recording private conversations.

Graeme Gerrard, chairman of the chief police officers video and CCTV working group, said: In the UK this is a new step. Clearly there is somebody or something monitoring people speaking in the street, and before we were to engage in that technology there would be a number of legal obstacles.

We would need to have a debate as to whether or not this is something the public think would be a reasonable use of the technology. The other issue is around the capacity of the police service to deal with this.


Damn . . . looks like "1984" wasn't all that far out after all - just a bit premature! angry
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matis

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Re: Big Brother gets bigger and even more intrusive
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2006, 06:41:27 AM »
Is there, I wonder, a pig-Latin equivalent for sign language?

Perhaps we could ask Phil Zimmerman to create a PGP device for the mouth?

Could we borrow Stephen Hawking's speaking device?


I guess if the Islamo-Fascists don't get us, our own government will.



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HankB

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Re: Big Brother gets bigger and even more intrusive
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2006, 06:48:03 AM »
What we need are webcams and microphones accessible to any member of the public with an internet connection in ALL police department squad rooms, government offices, the Senate cloakroom, hallways in government buildings, etc. Taps on all government phones and Internet connections would also be a good idea. (We can skip the cameras in the restroom stalls.)

After all, if our leaders have nothing to hide, they won't mind the public looking in on them - constantly! - while they're doing government work, right?
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Nightfall

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Re: Big Brother gets bigger and even more intrusive
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2006, 08:51:58 AM »
Quote
"...aggression detection system..."
Damn, that is a scary phrase to hear your government interested in.
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doczinn

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Re: Big Brother gets bigger and even more intrusive
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2006, 11:24:30 AM »
Quote
If the aggressive behaviour continues, police can intervene before an incident escalates.
You there! Were you arguing with that man? Come with us. We'll have to detain you for 12 hours to make sure this doesn't escalate further.

Quote
The cameras work on the principle that in an aggressive situation the pitch goes up and the words are spoken faster, said van der Vorst. The voice is not the normal flat tone, but vibrates. It is these subtle changes that our audio cameras can pick up on.
Now that's scary. Sounds a lot like "future crime."
D. R. ZINN

Matthew Carberry

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Re: Big Brother gets bigger and even more intrusive
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2006, 11:25:57 AM »
Ironically I just saw V for Vendetta last night (not sure why it took this long) and in one scene was a govt. van with directional mikes driving along catching snippets of conversations inside houses.

Where does such a twist of perspective come from that this level of intrusion is even considered?  Does it appear in these people's heads fully formed or is it the result of a logical process (presumedly begun from false premises)?  

I'd love to hear the rationale, fully fleshed out from beginning to end, by those promoting these ideas, sometimes I question whether they've looked at it in its totality and have done the thinking to carry it out to its logical conclusion.

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Standing Wolf

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Re: Big Brother gets bigger and even more intrusive
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2006, 12:09:55 PM »
Stalin laughs himself silly beyond the grave.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

Monkeyleg

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Re: Big Brother gets bigger and even more intrusive
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2006, 12:28:08 PM »
I wonder if the SC would rule the use of those microphones in the US as a violation of the 4th.

Back when the feds were tailing John Gotti, the FBI wanted to bug the parking meters along the street where he took his "walk and talks." The court said no, because the bugs would also pick up conversations of other people passing by. The only way the FBI could plant bugs was to put recording equipment in the trunks of parked cars, and remotely start taping when Gotti and his associates walked by the cars.

Of course, that was nearly twenty years ago.

LAK

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Re: Big Brother gets bigger and even more intrusive
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2006, 02:30:35 AM »
Quote
The cameras work on the principle that in an aggressive situation the pitch goes up and the words are spoken faster, said van der Vorst. The voice is not the normal flat tone, but vibrates. It is these subtle changes that our audio cameras can pick up on.
This might spawn a new monotone street dialect - moderated to decrease in volume, tone, and slow down as the threats and insults increase and get more serious.

I suspect in addition to what's been said, a trip to the Ministry of Love for "treatment" will be the ultimate destination for many citizens deemed to be "a danger to the public" - or "themselves".

Washington being ideologically sevile to London, look for the arrival of the microphones here in the near future. The street cameras are already past introduction and on into the catching up phase.

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mfree

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Re: Big Brother gets bigger and even more intrusive
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2006, 08:06:19 AM »
Well, either the cameras have a distinct range of motion it can't exceed, or some enterprising individuals could walk around the camera shouting angrily until it wraps its cord up and unplugs or jams itself.

Maybe this is why they banned BB guns?

Zoogster

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Re: Big Brother gets bigger and even more intrusive
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2006, 11:44:30 AM »
The UK perspective is the eventual outcome in America. Democrats further that cause, while Republicans occasionaly further it, but more often do nothign to reverse what was done by the Dems. So the more years that go by with Dems the faster it happens, while more years with Republicans should slow it some.
 
Of course there is exceptions like Bush creating the Department of Homeland Security(or passing the Patriot Act), essentialy a large and growing agency that is tasked with spying on Americans to prevent 'terrorism'(as well as linking existing agencies to better share resources). However everything is considered terrorism now, whether it is fighting the war on drugs, or the stopping of Osama. Whether it is some common criminal committing 'street terrorism' or foriegners plotting. So they have  permission to implement all of these type of things and more already, of course they want to stay under the radar so few challenge things until they are generaly regarded as normal by the new generation.

The only thing that slows down progress to a total socialist police state where every 'good idea' people come up with is overseen by yet another government agency...is amount of funding. Dems tax more and give more funding to it, Republicans do so less.

doczinn

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Re: Big Brother gets bigger and even more intrusive
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2006, 01:10:46 PM »
[DocZinn shouting at camera]Hey, ************![/DocZinn]Then the camera turns to record a picture of me with my middle finger extended.

Alternate: Someone yells, someone in the other direction commits a crime.
D. R. ZINN

Monkeyleg

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Re: Big Brother gets bigger and even more intrusive
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2006, 01:39:56 PM »
doczinn, I wish you wouldn't use language like that.

This forum is called Armed Polite Society for a reason.

doczinn

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Re: Big Brother gets bigger and even more intrusive
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2006, 01:53:05 PM »
It's in a specific context, which calls for it.
D. R. ZINN

Preacherman

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Re: Big Brother gets bigger and even more intrusive
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2006, 02:53:09 PM »
No, doc, it doesn't.  I edited your post.  Please don't do it again.
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Werewolf

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Re: Big Brother gets bigger and even more intrusive
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2006, 03:33:15 PM »
How Ironic...
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garyk/nm

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Re: Big Brother gets bigger and even more intrusive
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2006, 03:56:20 PM »
How Ironic...

Two little words...
And I've got broccoli beef lodged in my sinuses.
Dang it, Werewolf! Give us a little warning, eh?