Author Topic: Obama to Make Smart Gun Tech Announcement  (Read 3241 times)

Ben

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Obama to Make Smart Gun Tech Announcement
« on: April 28, 2016, 06:48:52 PM »
Obama is set to make an announcement on Friday regarding his "smart gun" agenda. Not sure how this will affect gun owners at this time other than (like all taxpayers) being on the hook for it looks like a lot of "development" dollars.

Interesting quote from a fed cop rep:

Quote
“Police officers in general, federal officers in particular, shouldn’t be asked to be the guinea pigs in evaluating a firearm that nobody’s even seen yet,” James Pasco, executive director of the Fraternal Order of Police, told Politico.

Welcome to the party, pal.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/04/28/obama-set-to-push-for-smart-gun-tech-despite-concerns.html?intcmp=hpbt3
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Boomhauer

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Re: Obama to Make Smart Gun Tech Announcement
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2016, 06:54:57 PM »
His detail can be the first to field test it!
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Obama to Make Smart Gun Tech Announcement
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2016, 07:05:18 PM »
Statement from the NSSF:

Quote
NSSF Statement on White House
'Smart Gun' Initiative

Based on news reports that a federal report on so-called "smart gun" technology would be issued as soon as today, the National Shooting Sports Foundation, as the trade association for the firearms industry, issues the following statement. While NSSF has yet to see the report, we would like to make our position clear on the issue:

The National Shooting Sports Foundation does not oppose the development of so-called "smart gun" technology. The industry does, however, oppose ill-conceived government mandates to compel the use of this conceptual technology due to a number of concerns including reliability challenges, product liability concerns, battery life, and unintended safety consequences. We firmly believe the market and consumer demand should be allowed to function without interference from the government. We also oppose any effort to politicize the purchasing of law enforcement equipment.

Law enforcement officials in the U.S. have dangerous jobs and put their life on the line every day to keep us safe. The announcement by the White House is driven by the agenda of anti-gun interest groups, not by the demands of the officers whose lives depend on reliable firearms to do their jobs. Any step toward mandating that highly-trained federal law enforcement personnel carry firearms limited by the whim of unproven, unreliable technology makes their jobs more dangerous, and puts their lives and public safety at risk.

That's why the Fraternal Order of Police also opposes mandates that police officers be required to use this unproven technology. Law enforcement has an understandable reluctance to adopt firearms that may prevent officers from being able to discharge a firearm under duress or adverse conditions. FOP Executive Director Jim Pasco told Politico that "Police officers in general, federal officers in particular, shouldn't be asked to be the guinea pigs in evaluating a firearm that nobody's even seen yet . . . we have some very, very serious questions."

The firearms industry is proud our law enforcement officials use our thoroughly tested, reliable products to do their jobs and protect public safety. If law enforcement officials desired "smart guns," and they were reliable enough to be available on the market, they would already have them. The expected politically driven announcement from the White House cannot change the reality that neither requirement is met by the still evolving "smart gun" technology that exists today.

We've seen this coming for awhile. Despite a couple of states playing with a "smart gun" requirement, there hasn't been any real incentive for the industry to push development. It seems the industry is aware that the first company to come to market with a smart gun (thereby triggering state requirements to exclude anything else) will be the first company to lose its entire customer base overnight.

Put on your tin foil cranial cover if you wish, but what's going on is that the .gov is becoming more desperate to achieve something "meaningful" regarding gun control. So (I believe) the new game plan is to try to force the manufacturers into the smart gun business by getting major police departments to sign onto smart gun technology as a requirement for doing business with their agencies. If the .gov can use the police to leverage the development of smart gun technology, then the states can argue that the technology is "proven" and "readily available," and then proceed to outlaw anything that doesn't have smart gun technology.
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Ben

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Re: Obama to Make Smart Gun Tech Announcement
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2016, 07:46:09 PM »
Another  [tinfoil] thought:

New Jersey for sure, and maybe other states already have or will enact "once technology comes on the market" regs for forcing the sale of only smart guns. One could get tinfoily and think that the fed register notice for development could include a brand new out of nowhere "private sector'  gun manufacturer who only comes out with one or two smart gun models to pass whatever tests the gov wants. Then boom, state regs in lefty states kick in requiring only smart tech guns to be sold in their states.

Kind of a Solyndra for firearms. Fed.gov throws a ton of money at them in contracts and grants to develop something fed.gov wants to push on the public.

Anyway, on the bright side, this is clearly something that allows a strong argument for implementation by LE first. If that argument can be made, it'll be one of the few gun control measures where private pro-gun groups and NGOs will be (for the most part) backed up be LE groups and unions.
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wmenorr67

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Re: Obama to Make Smart Gun Tech Announcement
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2016, 07:31:18 AM »
Screw LE first, let them try it for military usage first.  If a LT or PVT can use it without breaking it then it will work.
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dogmush

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Re: Obama to Make Smart Gun Tech Announcement
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2016, 08:10:00 AM »
I'm a Warrant Officer.

Issue me a smart gun. I double dog dare you.  >:D

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wmenorr67

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Re: Obama to Make Smart Gun Tech Announcement
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2016, 09:07:20 AM »
I'm a Warrant Officer.

Issue me a smart gun. I double dog dare you.  >:D

[Chuckles]"You guys watch this *expletive deleted*it"

Got to put your coffee cup down long enough. :rofl:
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

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RevDisk

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Re: Obama to Make Smart Gun Tech Announcement
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2016, 09:24:20 AM »

I remember the issue over the Armatix iP1. Thankfully some sanity broke out and the Attorney General of New Jersey said it didn't match the mandate's requirements. Thankfully, because the Armatix iP1 was a wet dream for anti-gun folks. It could be remotely disabled, ridiculously expensive, barely lethal, and extremely problematic.

The ONLY smart gun mandate I support is a federal law requiring states that mandate smart guns to solely equip their police departments with them. No state mandates, no problems. Your state wants to ensure its population has to buy ueber expensive unreliable pistols? Fine, your police are restricted to the same thing. Have a nice day with that screaming charlie foxtrot. I don't remotely hate cops, but I'd cognizant of the politics involved. Police brass and police unions are often not friendly towards the Second Amendment. They do not generally go out of the way to protect the 2A. Which is fine. Throwing officer safety under the bus is unpleasant and should NOT be taken lightly. It should be a nuclear option, mutually assured destruction.

Under no circumstances should police be able to own firearms that the general population cannot equally buy.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Obama to Make Smart Gun Tech Announcement
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2016, 09:38:05 AM »
Under no circumstances should police be able to own firearms that the general population cannot equally buy.

This. Also this:

Quote
The ONLY smart gun mandate I support is a federal law requiring states that mandate smart guns to solely equip their police departments with them.

I like it. No ARs, no shotguns, no back-up pistols, unless they are also "smart."  =)
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MechAg94

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Re: Obama to Make Smart Gun Tech Announcement
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2016, 11:54:43 AM »
If he really wanted people to try it, he would set it up so NFA features (full auto, SBR, suppressors) could be used on "Smart Guns" without registration or background checks.  Some people's head might explode, but there would be some market.   =D
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Ron

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Re: Obama to Make Smart Gun Tech Announcement
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2016, 12:03:05 PM »
So a bunch of big dummies want to make inanimate objects "smart".
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

brimic

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Re: Obama to Make Smart Gun Tech Announcement
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2016, 12:10:36 PM »
It sounds like a red herring thrown out there to dodge the 'smart fences on the mexican border' problem.

Maybe if he put the ATF to work prosecuting felons in possession of a firearm to the fullest extend of the law instead of prosecuting persecuting people for paperwork issues that may or may not be the fault of the ATF's poor record keeping, we can solve the whole 'gun crime' problem*.


*preaching to the choir here, but the entire 'gun crime' problem has been created by the same people who want to solve the 'problem' by banning them.
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Unisaw

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Re: Obama to Make Smart Gun Tech Announcement
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2016, 04:00:23 PM »
I hope it is just as successful as the administration's "smart" foreign policy.
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MechAg94

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Re: Obama to Make Smart Gun Tech Announcement
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2016, 04:12:49 PM »
I hope it is just as successful as the administration's "smart" foreign policy.
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Re: Obama to Make Smart Gun Tech Announcement
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2016, 06:17:42 PM »
Quote
We firmly believe the market and consumer demand should be allowed to function without interference from the government.

Dream on, NSSF.
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brimic

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Re: Obama to Make Smart Gun Tech Announcement
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2016, 06:28:53 PM »
My new iPhone has fingerprint unlocking, it's great, however I'll never have to shoot anyone (or anything) with my phone, so that roughly 1 second it takes to scan and unlock is hardly noticeable. Nor is that maybe 10% failure to unlock going to get me killed either, and this is tech from one of the greatest tech companies in the world, not some pie in the sky dream of a clown who occupies the White House or opinions of rent seeking government gun producing contractors.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

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Ben

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Re: Obama to Make Smart Gun Tech Announcement
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2016, 07:04:12 PM »
My new iPhone has fingerprint unlocking, it's great, however I'll never have to shoot anyone (or anything) with my phone, so that roughly 1 second it takes to scan and unlock is hardly noticeable. Nor is that maybe 10% failure to unlock going to get me killed either, and this is tech from one of the greatest tech companies in the world, not some pie in the sky dream of a clown who occupies the White House or opinions of rent seeking government gun producing contractors.

I was just thinking about that yesterday. I use the fingerprint reader on my S5. Without the "Ben resistant" cover on it, the reader works about 99% of the time on the first swipe. With the cover sometimes getting in the way of a clean swipe, I drop to around 80%.

Yesterday, I was sanding down a chair to refinish it, and on corners and round areas, I generally just hold the sandpaper in my hands and press with my fingers. After I was done, I washed my hands and grabbed my phone to check mail. The stupid reader could not read my fingerprint in the seven or whatever passes before it goes to password mode. Did so with both the fingers on my left hand (dominant hand) that I scanned in (index and middle). It had to be from the sandpaper abrading the surface of my fingers. I wasn't doing as much sanding with my right hand,  and my right index finger worked most of the time. I'm around the same today, though it seems to be reading the left hand a little better.

Actually, just as I was typing this I got to wondering about my biometric safe, so just got back from trying. Index finger fail, middle finger failed around 50%, thumb (which is what I usually use), 100% success as has always been the case with this safe.

I'd hate this to happen when I need to pull the trigger. I'm of course assuming that it was the sandpaper that did this, since that's the only thing that changed since yesterday. I suppose as the abraded skin flakes off, my fingerprints will return to "normal". Still, if it's about putting your life in your hands, I don't know that current technology cuts it.

EDIT: I've also noticed in the past that my phone reader will fail more if I have wet fingers.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Obama to Make Smart Gun Tech Announcement
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2016, 07:53:24 PM »
So a bunch of big dummies want to make inanimate objects "smart".

I'm waiting for the next logical step -- graduated carry licenses, depending on whether your firearm has a G.E.D., high schhol diploma, undergraduate degree, master's, or Ph.D.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Obama to Make Smart Gun Tech Announcement
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2016, 07:56:31 PM »
My new iPhone has fingerprint unlocking, it's great, however I'll never have to shoot anyone (or anything) with my phone, so that roughly 1 second it takes to scan and unlock is hardly noticeable. Nor is that maybe 10% failure to unlock going to get me killed either, and this is tech from one of the greatest tech companies in the world, not some pie in the sky dream of a clown who occupies the White House or opinions of rent seeking government gun producing contractors.

Do you have it programmed for both hands? What happens if your "strong" hand is occupied and you have to operate the phone with the unsupported weak hand?
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brimic

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Re: Obama to Make Smart Gun Tech Announcement
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2016, 08:44:08 PM »
Do you have it programmed for both hands? What happens if your "strong" hand is occupied and you have to operate the phone with the unsupported weak hand?

My eye sight isn't the greatest anymore, if I feel the need to fap, I'd use a tablet.
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MechAg94

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Re: Obama to Make Smart Gun Tech Announcement
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2016, 12:35:42 AM »
Some people REALLY like guns.
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RevDisk

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Re: Obama to Make Smart Gun Tech Announcement
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2016, 02:41:06 PM »
Fingerprints are probably the absolute worst form of biometric identification. Under ideal lab circumstances or unconnected to actual humans, they're fine. Issue is that people use their hands on a routine basis. As others stated, skin is not very abrasive resistant. It's somewhat consistant day to day, but scars can become an issue at any moment. People get their hands dirty routinely.

Not to mention, I've never seen a finger print scanner that can read through blood. And I've asked every fingerprint scanner rep about that. They were uniformly horrified at the question.

"So, if I'm shot and bleeding, I get my hands soaked with blood from using pressure to reduce the bleeding, how do I open up this fancy fingerprint reader? If I use pressure to stop someone else's wound, or I was working on my car, or I was ripping up weeds, how do I open up the fingerprint reader?"
"You stop and wash your hands."
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I wouldn't even trust fingerprint biometrics on my phone or tablet. Let alone on a safe, and certainly not on something mission critical like a firearm. Retinal pattern is usually pretty good, but generally too clunky to bolt to a firearm. They make rugged ones, but they're not small. Embedded RFID chip is probably the best option for size, reliability and speed. I'm sure police wouldn't object to getting chipped.
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Ben

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Re: Obama to Make Smart Gun Tech Announcement
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2016, 03:35:56 PM »
Embedded RFID chip is probably the best option for size, reliability and speed. I'm sure police wouldn't object to getting chipped.

Some interesting thoughts regarding that tech (I assume it's what the Aramtix uses? Even if a different sensor system, this probably applies) and the fact that the manufacturer, by design (10" proximity), makes the firearm pretty worthless in numerous plausible self defense scenarios:

http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/01/12/smart-guns-junk-technology-wanted-dumb-people/
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brimic

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Re: Obama to Make Smart Gun Tech Announcement
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2016, 03:43:53 PM »
Quote
Not to mention, I've never seen a finger print scanner that can read through blood.
Quote
Retinal pattern is usually pretty good, but generally too clunky to bolt to a firearm.

Heh.
Retinal scanners, even if miniaturized would seem to have the same weaknesses as fingerprint scanners....
-Will they read through sunglasses/shooting glasses?
- will they read through blood?
- Will it work if eyeball is damaged?
- Probably no way it would work if you go to ground, have goblin's ear between your teeth (or nose, or fingerbanging his eye socket...) and need to put a few drain holes in his guts right quick.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama