Author Topic: A severed head, two cops, and the radical future of interrogation  (Read 8892 times)

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
http://www.wired.com/2016/05/how-to-interrogate-suspects/

I knew false confessions were a significant problem, but not how bad it was.

Quote
But the scientific case against police interrogations really began to mount in the early 1990s, when the first DNA-based exonerations started rolling in. According to the Innocence Project, a group dedicated to freeing the wrongfully imprisoned, about a third of the 337 people who’ve had their convictions overturned by DNA evidence confessed or incriminated themselves falsely.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

RevDisk

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,633
    • RevDisk.net
Re: A severed head, two cops, and the radical future of interrogation
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2016, 01:23:34 PM »

Most forensics science is not science. It's rarely peer reviewed, has little repeatable studies proving its efficiency or false positive rate, etc.

Lie detectors are nothing of the kind, but rather general stress detectors but make nice inhuman 'bad cops' during routine interrogations.
Fingerprinting isn't terrible, under best case circumstances. 99.8% is proclaimed by the FBI and DOJ, which means the FBI is admitting a minimum 2 out of 1000 people convicted on fingerprints are innocent. Real life partial prints (latents) are however much much lower accuracy than that two in a thousand wrongly convicted or set free thing. Problem isn't the shockingly high admitted 0.2% failure rate, it's that alleged experts don't admit the limits of their judgments.
DNA is the gold standard, but problems with collection and crooked crime labs can muck that up too.

Computer and firearm forensics are more junk science than homeopathy. You can get results. However, those results are trivial to manipulate with absolutely no evidence left of the manipulation. That's the real problem, with all forensics. It looks really really convincing so long as you don't question the results. Juries and lawyers generally don't, and paid experts have all the incentive in the world to selectively tell the truth (or just lie) about the limits of their fields.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

AJ Dual

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,162
  • Shoe Ballistics Inc.
Re: A severed head, two cops, and the radical future of interrogation
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2016, 01:27:28 PM »
http://www.wired.com/2016/05/how-to-interrogate-suspects/

I knew false confessions were a significant problem, but not how bad it was.


And the people caught up in it, being the usual lower socio-economic backgrounds in which most crimes happen, they're at an even further disadvantage.
I promise not to duck.

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,500
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: A severed head, two cops, and the radical future of interrogation
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2016, 02:26:45 PM »
So the moral of the story is: don't lie, and be nice to people. Jesus puts on a badge.
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

KD5NRH

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,926
  • I'm too sexy for you people.
Re: A severed head, two cops, and the radical future of interrogation
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2016, 02:46:12 PM »
So the moral of the story is: don't lie, and be nice to people. Jesus puts on a badge.

And if they shoot at you for doing exactly what they just told you to do, you'd damn well better die quietly and respectfully.

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Re: A severed head, two cops, and the radical future of interrogation
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2016, 03:05:44 PM »
So the moral of the story is: don't lie, and be nice to people. Jesus puts on a badge.

And have a lawyer present when talking to LEOs.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

AJ Dual

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,162
  • Shoe Ballistics Inc.
Re: A severed head, two cops, and the radical future of interrogation
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2016, 03:08:10 PM »
So the moral of the story is: don't lie, and be nice to people. Jesus puts on a badge.

Yep.

Being nice to people, taking your time, and seeming like a sympathetic ear will get them to spill much more accurately and genuinely than being "mean" or using pressure, which will either get the person to clam up, stay away from critical details if they're able to keep their wits about them, or create fabricated confessions to get out from under the pressure.

The relaxed subject being treated in a friendly manner, who doesn't feel he's being pushed or directed in any way is also more likely to willingly give up details (admissible in court) that can be used against them too. Like in this cold case referenced in the Wired article Balog linked to in the OP, the killer admitted freely he and the dead man took walks/explored the area where the body was dumped. Which along with other details he admitted to was enough to finally create probable cause for a warrant.

Even being "nice" and calm, but insistent and pressuring them with the "we know you killed them" approach can produce a false confession. You want the subject to wander as far as they want under their own free will, and unwittingly spill the beans.

http://pss.sagepub.com/content/early/2015/01/14/0956797614562862.abstract

University psych studies of randomly selected student volunteers, not even under the stress of dealing with "police" or feeling any worries about legal jeopardy were pretty easily manipulated into false confessions of petty crimes, family domestic violence etc. by the researchers running the study. They'd not tell the subject what they were being interviewed for, beyond "We need fodder for a university psych study" etc. and then they'd do things like have interviews spaced days or weeks apart, and then do something like ask them: "Last week, you told us about a fight with your sister you had as a teen that was pretty bad... tell us more about that..." When the person had reported no such thing in the initial interview.

Very often, the intervewee would come up with a story that filled in the assumed knowledge the interviewer implied they had about "the fight". Then next week, they'd ask them "Last week when we got further into that bad fight with your sister, where you hit her, and she needed medical attention? How hard did you hit her?" etc. and the person would again come up with more and more "details" of this incident that never happened. Either accepting that it actually did happen, or at least get into a state of cognitive dissonance where they were going along with this parallel reality it to satisfy the interviewer.
I promise not to duck.

230RN

  • saw it coming.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,947
  • ...shall not be allowed.
Re: A severed head, two cops, and the radical future of interrogation
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2016, 03:59:18 PM »
They've got interrogation techniques down pretty pat.  Read about the nine steps of the Reid Technique here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reid_technique

Quote
The term "Reid Technique" is a registered trademark of the firm John E. Reid and Associates, which offers training courses in the method they have devised. While the technique is widely used by law-enforcement agencies in North America, it has been criticized for its history of eliciting false confessions.[1]

Oh, wow, a "registered trademark."  Wow.

In re HIG per the Wired article:

Quote
Marcia remembers a couple of cases in particular that shook up his thinking. In one, he walked into the room with the suspect and, à la Reid, said, “Look, there’s no doubt in my mind that you committed this crime. We have this. We have this. We have this.” To which the suspect said, “Well, if you think you know all that *expletive deleted*it, I got nothing to say to you.”

Or in other words,

"We wouldn't be in this room if you had enough evidence to go to trial.  I'm not confessing to anything in any fishing expedition and I'm not going to give you any information to pursue things further.  So either you go to trial with what you supposedly have, or let me go.  Which is it?"

Quote
As soon as the conversation moved to the hours around when Medellin was killed, the detail and color drained out of his recollections. “The narration became more and more fragmented,” Stearns says. In light of the detectives’ HIG training, that blurriness spoke volumes.

"As soon as" is a subjective report of the interrogators in this article.  That's evidence?

"In light of..." a new, unproven HIG technique, "that blurriness speaks volumes."  It also bespeaks of tiredness and possibly plain old hunger and maybe a dozen other things like getting frustrated with the whole friendly interview.

I laugh, ha-ha.  "In light of" the guy being interviewed for four hours...

It would only take two hours for me to have "the detail and color drained out of my recollections."

"Hey.  Go to trial with what you've got, and I don't believe you about the polygraph and the thin microgram-quantities of DNA evidence you supposedly got off my soda pop can.  You guys are authorized to lie by the Courts, after all.  I'm going to the bathroom now and I don't expect to be stopped on my way back to my car."

And I wonder why they don't reveal the new, latest and greatest leading-edge whoop-dee-doo HIG protocol.  Perhaps because it's actually vulnerable to attack?

That's what the "evidence" looks like to me.

Terry, 230RN
« Last Edit: June 02, 2016, 04:53:51 PM by 230RN »
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,500
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: A severed head, two cops, and the radical future of interrogation
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2016, 05:00:44 PM »
Terry, the point is that the HIG techniques led to the opposite outcome from what you suggest. The suspect, instead of stone-walling, gave up information he didn't need to. Also, I don't recall anyone claiming that "blurry" conversation was admissable in court. They apparently took it as a clue about which direction to steer the conversation.
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

230RN

  • saw it coming.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,947
  • ...shall not be allowed.
Re: A severed head, two cops, and the radical future of interrogation
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2016, 05:50:47 PM »
"The suspect, instead of stone-walling, gave up information he didn't need to."

No.  The point is he got nailed for it.

"They apparently took it as a clue about which direction to steer the conversation."

So? They wouldn't have got that far in the first place.  The only thing that bothers me is they might throw some thin little charge on you for impeding an investigation... and have to take you to court on that.  Or release you.

"Am I under suspicion as the perpetrator of this horrible crime?"

"No, we just want to get some information you may have about the surrounding facts."

"You guys are authorized to lie.  I don't believe you, and I think you guys think I am guilty.  I am therefore saying nothing which might be construed as tending toward self-incrimination.  I therefore plead my rights under the Fifth Amendment.  And I want my (or a) lawyer present during any future friendly interviews.  And I want my (or a ) lawyer to subpoena any documentation about the HIG protocol including if and when you may have taken classes or training on it or any other interrogation techniques."

 >:D

At least, I'd be thinking all that while I merely requested to have a lawyer present.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2016, 06:16:27 PM by 230RN »
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,873
Re: A severed head, two cops, and the radical future of interrogation
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2016, 06:23:10 PM »
At least someone is researching this.  I can't imagine being grilled for 16 hours as a teenager.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,500
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: A severed head, two cops, and the radical future of interrogation
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2016, 06:39:10 PM »
Got nailed for what? Voluntarily incriminating himself?  ???

I don't think you read the same article I did. The article in the OP said that "HIG" was less prone to elicit false confessions than the Reid routine. Are you saying that the article is wrong, and that HIG is more prone to false confessions than Reid is?

Also, the article states that Reid emphasizes lying to the suspect, while HIG does not. So why do you mention cops being "authorized" to lie?

Also, what's with the tough talk? So you're too smart to be fooled by a HIG interrogation. Is that supposed to make one mode of interrogation better than another?

 ??? ??? ???

"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,873
Re: A severed head, two cops, and the radical future of interrogation
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2016, 06:42:32 PM »
This new technique does seem to assume your cooperation.  I am not sure how to differentiate between asking you questions as a witness versus asking you questions as a suspect.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

BlueStarLizzard

  • Queen of the Cislords
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,039
  • Oh please, nobody died last time...
Re: A severed head, two cops, and the radical future of interrogation
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2016, 07:13:11 PM »
This new technique does seem to assume your cooperation.  I am not sure how to differentiate between asking you questions as a witness versus asking you questions as a suspect.

I think part of the point is that this technique is more likely to make the difference between suspect and witness if you are a person of interest. If done correctly, only the guilty party would be able to provide the level of detail required.

I think, if this method is successful, it would be an improvement, but there remains the issue of internal politics of LEO departments and how much the public can or will trust them to be successful with this method.
"Okay, um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm angry, and I'm armed, so if you two have something that you need to work out --" -Malcolm Reynolds

230RN

  • saw it coming.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,947
  • ...shall not be allowed.
Re: A severed head, two cops, and the radical future of interrogation
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2016, 07:21:49 PM »
"Also, what's with the tough talk? So you're too smart to be fooled by a HIG interrogation. Is that supposed to make one mode of interrogation better than another?"

Once again, you're imputing something that is not there.  You get unnecessarily contentious sometimes.

It's  only tough thinking, fistful.  So lay off.

I await your having the last word, as you usually must have.

Terry
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

French G.

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,200
  • ohhh sparkles!
Re: A severed head, two cops, and the radical future of interrogation
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2016, 08:16:25 PM »
I got bad copped by a NCIS agent to admit to doing something that I had been a co-complainant about. It involved computers in the days before solid individual logins, he was going to find no guilty party, so skewer the guy that started it to tidy everything up. I suppose he wasn't planning on my response, it's been 20 years, still mad.
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

Firethorn

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,789
  • Where'd my explosive space modulator go?
Re: A severed head, two cops, and the radical future of interrogation
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2016, 08:27:56 PM »
"They apparently took it as a clue about which direction to steer the conversation."

So? They wouldn't have got that far in the first place.  The only thing that bothers me is they might throw some thin little charge on you for impeding an investigation... and have to take you to court on that.  Or release you.

Exactly.  They wouldn't, didn't, get that far in a traditional investigation - which as the articles note, have a tendency to force confessions out of the slow, stupid, and young.  The hardened criminals, as you noted, would shut up and stay shut up.

Quote
"You guys are authorized to lie.  I don't believe you, and I think you guys think I am guilty.  I am therefore saying nothing which might be construed as tending toward self-incrimination.  I therefore plead my rights under the Fifth Amendment.  And I want my (or a) lawyer present during any future friendly interviews.  And I want my (or a ) lawyer to subpoena any documentation about the HIG protocol including if and when you may have taken classes or training on it or any other interrogation techniques."

If you read the article, it notes that the UK has started using similar techniques and they aren't allowed to lie.  Heck, the techniques themselves shouldn't require much lying at all, because it's about keeping the suspect talking - if you're busy listening, you're not busy lying.  

Now, yes, requesting your lawyer is probably still a good idea, but I'm getting the idea that these techniques are a bit like figuring out that blood-letting isn't actually some sort of universal cure.

This new technique does seem to assume your cooperation.  I am not sure how to differentiate between asking you questions as a witness versus asking you questions as a suspect.

Well, short of the 3rd degree, interrogation has always assumed a certain level of cooperation.  The Reid techniques assumed that applying 'pressure' - make the suspect uncomfortable and wanting OUT, would work to make them talk.  That the extra stress would make lying more difficult, etc...

As AJ said, being the 'good guy', cooperative and sympathetic, letting them talk more, simply works better.

As for the description of the interview, remember that they're relating it to a reporter who relates it to us.  "Blurry" might be a set of signals that takes an hour or so to explain thoroughly, but amounts to the loss of detail that happens when the interviewee starts lying.  Remember, lying takes more brain-work.

I got bad copped by a NCIS agent to admit to doing something that I had been a co-complainant about. It involved computers in the days before solid individual logins, he was going to find no guilty party, so skewer the guy that started it to tidy everything up. I suppose he wasn't planning on my response, it's been 20 years, still mad.

He wanted you to confess to it, and it didn't work?

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,500
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: A severed head, two cops, and the radical future of interrogation
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2016, 08:53:47 PM »
I await your having the last word, as you usually must have.

Uh, well, if you don't answer my latest post, then...  


Quote
"Also, what's with the tough talk? So you're too smart to be fooled by a HIG interrogation. Is that supposed to make one mode of interrogation better than another?"

Once again, you're imputing something that is not there.


Fair enough. In any case, I don't see the relevance of the fifth amendment "I want my lawyer" stuff. Yeah, you can defeat any interrogation technique by refusing to talk. That's obvious.


Quote
You get unnecessarily contentious sometimes.

Said the guy that came out swinging about this topic.  :P
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,873
Re: A severed head, two cops, and the radical future of interrogation
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2016, 09:56:18 PM »
The technique makes sense especially with people who are lying about their story.  They probably tend to want to sell their story to convince the police.  Plenty of other ways for bad investigators to screw things up.

The murderer the story referred to never really admitted to murder.  It was still flimsy evidence but a apparently a jury found it enough. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: A severed head, two cops, and the radical future of interrogation
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2016, 01:58:00 AM »
The technique makes sense especially with people who are lying about their story.  They probably tend to want to sell their story to convince the police.  Plenty of other ways for bad investigators to screw things up.

The murderer the story referred to never really admitted to murder.  It was still flimsy evidence but a apparently a jury found it enough. 

As has been noted, pleading the fifth (or just refusing to vocalize full stop ala Unintended Consequences) defeats any interrogation technique. I'm all in favor of employing methodology that less frequently tricks young/stupid/easily intimidated people into false confessions.

Also, was t the big thing in the article that he admitted to making the same kind of paralytic that was used on the victim, or am I misremembering?
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

230RN

  • saw it coming.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,947
  • ...shall not be allowed.
Re: A severed head, two cops, and the radical future of interrogation
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2016, 02:46:15 AM »
Firethorn remarked,

Quote
If you read the article, it notes that the UK has started using similar techniques and they aren't allowed to lie.

Well, my understanding is, according to several court cases I cannot cite, that U.S. investigators are allowed to lie.

Informally, see:

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/faqs-police-interrogations.html

Quote
What tactics can the police use when questioning a suspect?The police are prohibited from using physical or psychological coercion when conducting police interrogations. A confession or evidence that results from coercive tactics is inadmissible at trial. The police, for example, may not use torture techniques, threats, drugging, or inhumane treatment during an interrogation. The police, however, can use lying, trickery, and other types of non-coercive methods to obtain a confession from a suspect. - See more at: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/faqs-police-interrogations.html#sthash.SSp9oF6r.dpuf

Please take careful note that I am not anti-LEO.  I have a lot of respect for cops.  But I am against some of the dishonest or unethical techniques that some cops might use to obtain evidence or confessions.

Terry, 230RN
« Last Edit: June 03, 2016, 03:41:37 AM by 230RN »
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

Firethorn

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,789
  • Where'd my explosive space modulator go?
Re: A severed head, two cops, and the radical future of interrogation
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2016, 04:40:33 AM »
Well, my understanding is, according to several court cases I cannot cite, that U.S. investigators are allowed to lie.

Which is why I specified the UK specifically, then continued on the specify that the technique doesn't appear to need lying, or even find it all that useful.

I know US police are allowed to lie, I'm not sure why you thought I didn't. 

Quote
Please take careful note that I am not anti-LEO.  I have a lot of respect for cops.  But I am against some of the dishonest or unethical techniques that some cops might use to obtain evidence or confessions.

Which is why I was pointing out that the UK has taken the additional step.

Jocassee

  • Buster Scruggs Respecter
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,591
  • "First time?"
Re: A severed head, two cops, and the radical future of interrogation
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2016, 08:49:06 AM »
I'm trying to figure out how they got a conviction with really nothing more than they had previously.
I shall not die alone, alone, but kin to all the powers,
As merry as the ancient sun and fighting like the flowers.

T.O.M.

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,415
Re: A severed head, two cops, and the radical future of interrogation
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2016, 09:19:13 AM »
Based on my 22+ years in the system, a few points:
1.  Interrogations rarely lead to confessions.  I know, you see the big deal confessions on the news.  But in my experience, the Perry Mason moment rarely comes.  An interrogation does two things.  First, it gets information that investigators can use to either corroborate the evidence, or contradict it.  If it contradicts the evidence, you have to consider the validity of the evidence, or if the evidence is solid, use the false statement against the subject, either in a subsequent interrogation or in court.  Second, and more useful to me as a prosecutor, it locks the defendant into a version of the story.  If you have a version from the interrogation, and the evidence establishes that the story is false, you have pinned the defendant in a corner, and they cannot change stories.  If they do, you cross examine based on the interrogation, and lead up to the always fun questions "were you lying then, or are you lying now?"
2.  Most criminals are dumb.  Smart criminals are few and far between, and they rarely get caught unless they do something dumb along the way.  These days, technology catches up to far more criminals than interrogations ever did.  People love to put photos on line.  Had a case a couple of months ago.  House for sale, sitting vacant.  Break in, thousands of dollars of damage.  Idiot teens had a drunken orgy in the home after kicking in the back door.  And they posted photo Instagram and Facebook of themselves in the house.  Most notably, photos of themselves doing the damage to the house.  Security cameras at banks and stores have really helped with check fraud, as you can see who presented the check.  Similar with stolen credit cards.  And a big one these days are recorded jail calls.  People being held in lieu of bond seem to make a lot of calls, and they tend to talk about the crime.  One I recall was a guy who unintentionally killed two people by overdosing them with heroin.  He shot them up at their request.  Charged with involuntary manslaughter.  I had to put the syringe in his hand.  He called his girlfriend, and during the call, he said "baby, you know I'm the doctor."  She asked what that meant, and he explained how he bought the heroin, prepped it, and injected both guys.  That was the nail in the coffin on the cases.
3.  A final point.  Most jurors are people who have watched hundreds of hours of television.  They come in with certain expectations as to how the investigation worked.  Thanks to CSI shows, they often expect a fingerprint, or God forbid they expect DNA in every case.  If the case involves an interrogation, they expect that it was something like they've seen on NYPD Blue or Hawaii 5-O, where a suspect ends up getting smacked around after being put in a windowless room for hours, deprived of food, water, and screamed at in the process.  I can't tell you how many jurors I spoke with after trials who expressed surprise if an interrogation took place at the suspect's home, or in a park, or if the officer spoke in a friendly tone with the defendant.  Hollywood (shocked face) poisoned the public minds about how the criminal justice system works, just as they have about gun owners.
No, I'm not mtnbkr.  ;)

a.k.a. "our resident Legal Smeagol."...thanks BryanP
"Anybody can give legal advice - but only licensed attorneys can sell it."...vaskidmark

230RN

  • saw it coming.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,947
  • ...shall not be allowed.
Re: A severed head, two cops, and the radical future of interrogation
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2016, 10:40:16 AM »
ETA Just to answer Firethorn, posted before I saw Chris' post, but I'm going to leave it as is:

Which is why I specified the UK specifically, then continued on the specify that the technique doesn't appear to need lying, or even find it all that useful.

I know US police are allowed to lie, I'm not sure why you thought I didn't.  

Which is why I was pointing out that the UK has taken the additional step.

Because you do not know (U.S.), going in to the interrogation room, what technique they are going to use, what their true purpose is (which they may be lying about) or, for that matter, exactly what the HIG protocol is and what is allowed within it.  (Since it seems to be a bit of a secret.)  

I wanted to emphasize this difference to everyone --that in the U.S. as opposed to the U.K., that "tool" seems to still be availabe, "HIG" notwithstanding.  I did not mean to challenge you on it.

Which is why I added, somewhat parenthetically, what would be going sub rosa through my head about my lawyer subpoena-ing all information about the Reid Technique, the "HIG" protocal, and the training of the officers in interrogation techniques.

Regardless of how they couch their gentle "request for more information," one has to be aware that it may actually be a more adversarial situation than they let on.

What would also be going through my head sub rosa is the somewhat flip dictum that "the best defense is a good offense."  Or at least getting mentally prepared for a good offense, keeping in mind that this situation-set where you are called in for an "interview," is more grave than a traffic cop asking, "What did you see when Vehicle A slammed into Vehicle B?"
 
Terry, 230RN

« Last Edit: June 03, 2016, 11:07:54 AM by 230RN »
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.