CATO Institute Sells Out RKBA

[Jim147]

If needing photo id to vote is racist, this would just be more of the same racist laws that got this whole ball rolling.  Yes I know somehow they have ID to get gov aid and I know some states went out of their way to make it hard to get the proper ID.

Gun laws were started to keep guns from minority's. Voting laws the same. And lets look at the drugs. Marijuana would not have it's high penalties if not for the white man going after the mexicans.

This is our government at work. It doesn't work. So I have stopped paying them.

[Fitz]

hahaha


the leaps you're making, DS.


people can easily get around laws meant to keep them from buying out of state.. but somehow a national scheme will work.


LOL


This guy.

[Hawkmoon]

I thought it was obvious that the point was for it to be mandatory

You mean mandatory IF you want to buy a firearm, I don't think you means that everyone, including people who never intend to buy firearms, must have one. So what your scheme would accomplish it to take what is now optional in most states and make it mandatory in every state. And you seriously offer this as "reducing" the burden on law-abiding citizens?

[zxcvbob]

I'm not sure what he intends to do about people who have an ID card and then lose their eligibility.  (felony or DV conviction, declared incompetent, smoke a joint, wind up on some secret govt shitlist, etc)  How does a seller verify that the ID is still valid?

[De Selby]

hahaha


the leaps you're making, DS.


people can easily get around laws meant to keep them from buying out of state.. but somehow a national scheme will work.


LOL


This guy.

Really?  You can't see how having the same rule and system across all 50 states helps promote consistent application?

The point of the ID system is to check for gun licenses when a person gets in trouble, and to check for trouble only once when the gun licence is issued.  Revoke and take it (just like a DL) when the person becomes ineligible.  Don't do the check every single time a gun leaves a dealer which is a waste.

A simple online portal to confirm numbers could be set up with it for nervy sellers.  A system like that will be far more difficult to rort than what we have now.

[De Selby]

You mean mandatory IF you want to buy a firearm, I don't think you means that everyone, including people who never intend to buy firearms, must have one. So what your scheme would accomplish it to take what is now optional in most states and make it mandatory in every state. And you seriously offer this as "reducing" the burden on law-abiding citizens?

Yes.  Because it would replace the federal state patchwork with something more workable.  The goal is to offer the other side a tangible increase in effectiveness of preventing crooks getting guns in exchange for dumping red tape that doesn't directly contribute to that goal.

[De Selby]

I'm not sure what he intends to do about people who have an ID card and then lose their eligibility.  (felony or DV conviction, declared incompetent, smoke a joint, wind up on some secret govt shitlist, etc)  How does a seller verify that the ID is still valid?

This is something police and other pros should do as a matter of routine when the events that cost a person eligibility occur.

[zxcvbob]

This is something police and other pros should do as a matter of routine when the events that cost a person eligibility occur.

You mean like when they use illegal drugs (not convicted, just use) or when they land on the tsa* watchlist and the democrats* get their "No Fly, No Buy" law passed? (a lot of stupid republicans* think that's a good idea too)

*lowercase letters out of disrespect.

[Jim147]

He doesn't understand and will never understand that we could pass another 50k gun laws and the criminals will not follow the law.

[De Selby]

You mean like when they use illegal drugs (not convicted, just use) or when they land on the tsa* watchlist and the democrats* get their "No Fly, No Buy" law passed? (a lot of stupid republicans* think that's a good idea too)

*lowercase letters out of disrespect.

These are spurious comparisons.  There are plans in the works to add new criteria to the existing scheme, so I don't see how this is any more a problem for good reform.  If you can resist this bs now you can resist it in getting an improvement up.

[De Selby]

He doesn't understand and will never understand that we could pass another 50k gun laws and the criminals will not follow the law.

You honestly don't think we could do better than what we have!? 

[Perd Hapley]

He doesn't understand and will never understand that we could pass another 50k gun laws and the criminals will not follow the law.

I'm sure he understands all that. That's not what this is about. It's about a Peace, Order, and Good Government approach vs the American formula of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happinefs. It's about settling for the best scheme of gun control we can get, instead of insisting on full human rights.

[Perd Hapley]

You honestly don't think we could do better than what we have!? 

We can do better, by abolishing what we have.

[De Selby]

We can do better, by abolishing what we have.

Good luck with that.  Me, I'll take improvements as they come

[RoadKingLarry]

Let's start at the cultural level.
1st let's get rid of the stigma that comes with self defense and particularly lethal self defense.
Also the nonsense about "violence never settled anything", utter bullshit.
Unwarranted violent attacks against law abiding persons should be returned by overwhelming violence.
Pull a gun or knife or brandish a deadly weapon or use a disparity of physical strength against an intended victim and the expectation should be that the perpetrators are highly likely to end up DRT, right now.
The current model as established by Milquetoaste liberals offers no real and immediate consequences for those inclined to do violence against innocent persons.

[birdman]

Good luck with that.  Me, I'll take improvements as they come

Awww, and remember when you said I didn't have examp,es of you advocating for authoritarian positions?  Here's 8 pages of just that.

[De Selby]

Awww, and remember when you said I didn't have examp,es of you advocating for authoritarian positions?  Here's 8 pages of just that.

Haha, man can you attempt to explain how "better and more convenient gun law than today" equals authoritarian?  The point is to craft laws that put LESS burden on gun owners compared to now - yet that's authoritarian because it doesn't abolish all gun rules!

[De Selby]

Let's start at the cultural level.
1st let's get rid of the stigma that comes with self defense and particularly lethal self defense.
Also the nonsense about "violence never settled anything", utter bullshit.
Unwarranted violent attacks against law abiding persons should be returned by overwhelming violence.
Pull a gun or knife or brandish a deadly weapon or use a disparity of physical strength against an intended victim and the expectation should be that the perpetrators are highly likely to end up DRT, right now.
The current model as established by Milquetoaste liberals offers no real and immediate consequences for those inclined to do violence against innocent persons.

Cool story bro.  If 100 percent of America reads unintended consequences and half of those agree, this might be a reasonable way to deal with gun laws.  Last I checked sales were a bit lower though.

[Hawkmoon]

Yes.  Because it would replace the federal state patchwork with something more workable.  The goal is to offer the other side a tangible increase in effectiveness of preventing crooks getting guns in exchange for dumping red tape that doesn't directly contribute to that goal.

The system you propose would not -- and cannot -- in any way prevent bad people (as in "prohibited" people) from getting guns. Felons almost always seem to have a gun when they are re-arrested (just read the news papers) and they are NOT buying them from FFLs, gun shows, or Craigs List.

[Hawkmoon]

If you can resist this bs now you can resist it in getting an improvement up.

I still fail to see how federalizing a system that is a direct violation of the Constitution can possible be construed as an "improvement," especially when said "improvement" cannot possibly accomplish any of what it purports to offer.

[Ron]

Concentrating all control of gun ownership into the hands of the federal government seems to be a pretty authoritarian option.

Centralized control is a main feature of authoritarian regimes.

[Perd Hapley]

Concentrating all control of gun ownership into the hands of the federal government seems to be a pretty authoritarian option.

Centralized control is a main feature of authoritarian regimes.

But convenience! Brought to you by the people in charge of the TSA.

[Fitz]

Welcome to the mind of the leftist, gents. Will freely admit that criminals aren't following laws, and then in the same breath be fine with creating yet another rgovernment program with massive potential for abuse to "solve" the problem.

[birdman]

Haha, man can you attempt to explain how "better and more convenient gun law than today" equals authoritarian?  The point is to craft laws that put LESS burden on gun owners compared to now - yet that's authoritarian because it doesn't abolish all gun rules!

Concentrating all control of gun ownership into the hands of the federal government seems to be a pretty authoritarian option.

Centralized control is a main feature of authoritarian regimes.

What he said.  Honestly, if you don't see centralized control (by...wait for it...some sort of authority) and licensing (which requires permission...from an authority) to be authoritarian...regardless of convenience...then I think you must have an odd definition of "authoritarian".

[Scout26]

Selling to a prohibited person or buying a firearm for a prohibited person is already against the law.

In fact, the BATFEIO-EIO can trace crime guns, starting with the Manufacturer of said firearm.


However, in most cases they and the DOJ pass on prosecuting those folks, and on the rare occasion they do prosecute, they cut asinine plea deals.   Like Dontray Mills, initially charged with 55 counts of gun trafficking. 

Dontray Mills, 24, purchased a total of 27 firearms, mostly handguns, between December 2012 and April 2014 and pleaded guilty to one of the charges on April 22, 2014, after an ATF investigation. As a result of the conviction, Mills will never again be able to buy firearms legally.

On Wednesday, he was sentenced. As part of the plea bargain, prosecutors agreed with the one year of probation.