Jack Chick is dead

[MillCreek]

http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/christian-cartoon-tract-creator-jack-chick-dies-at-92/?utm_source=RSS&utm_medium=Referral&utm_campaign=RSS_all

I wonder if his afterlife is how it was portrayed in the pamphlets.

[Perd Hapley]

I suspect he meant well, but I found a lot of his work to be misguided. Hopefully, someone can take his enterprise in a better direction.

Also, the Seattle Times should tell us what they really think. 



Edited to add: In Before The Lock

[Phyphor]

[roo_ster]

I liked his stuff.  Oh, I was at odds with him on many significant bits of theology, but I found his methodology to be one seriously neglected by most all the evangelist sorts who took themselves seriously.  Guess what: half the population is of below median intelligence.  Providing them with a comic-based gospel tract is what is needed, as it is the message, not the medium that matters.  Pointing them at Aquinas, Augustine, Zwingli, is not going to convince them of their need for salvation, as they can not digest that level of reason and logic.  One can provide some of the Word and let the Holy Spirit do the rest in many cases.

The ridicule he attracted from non-Christian types and some Christians was icing on the cake.  He and his obviously ate up the hate directed at them and used it to fuel their efforts.

[K Frame]

I always thought he was just one step to the left (or right) of Fred Phelps and his Westboro freak show.

I was not a fan.

[AJ Dual]

Jack Chick singlehandedly invented Poe's Law.

[Ron]

I always thought he was just one step to the left (or right) of Fred Phelps and his Westboro freak show.

I was not a fan.

That says more about you than Mr Chick.

My thoughts run along the same lines as rooster.

He did more to get the simple gospel out than most churches ever will, his odd tangents aside.

[K Frame]

"That says more about you than Mr Chick."

Yep, it says that I don't truck with virulently intolerant aholes who wrap themselves in the cloak of "my version of religion is best and if you don't kowtow to it you're a scum who will burn in hell for all eternity."

And Mr. Chick was the epitome of a virulently intolerant ahole.

[Jocassee]

As someone who spent a considerable amount of time in Fundyland and heard the sermons and read the rants that spawned from his absurd conspiracy theories and assessments of things like Dungeons and Dragons, let me be the first to say that I hope he is in the presence of the Almighty and has experienced full understanding of the love of Christ--something he never demonstrated while here on earth.

[Ron]

"That says more about you than Mr Chick."

Yep, it says that I don't truck with virulently intolerant aholes who wrap themselves in the cloak of "my version of religion is best and if you don't kowtow to it you're a scum who will burn in hell for all eternity."

And Mr. Chick was the epitome of a virulently intolerant *expletive deleted*hole.

Jack Chick wasn't a crazy cult leader like Phelps. Phelps is way off the reservation theologically.

What it tells me about you is you that you have a problem discerning between crazy potentially cultists and old style hell fire and brimstone fundamentalism.  

Ironically you stated clearly you are intolerant of folks who don't believe like you do, just like Phelps,  

[K Frame]

Nope, he wasn't a crazy cult leader.

He just supported those who were.

Unlike Mr. Chick or the Rev. Phelps, I don't espouse active hatred of those with whom I disagree.

As the old guy from Duck Dynasty said so eloquently -- hate the sin, love the sinner.

Unfortunately, neither Chick or Phelps grasped that.

[mellestad]

He caused more harm to his religion than help. The people his comics appealed to didn't need convincing because they already believed and to people on the fence they looked ridiculous.

It's like the maybe-crazy guys on a street corner soap box shouting with a mega-phone. They're only appealing to the people who already believe what they believe and to everyone else they're just obnoxious.

[Jamisjockey]

"That says more about you than Mr Chick."

Yep, it says that I don't truck with virulently intolerant aholes who wrap themselves in the cloak of "my version of religion is best and if you don't kowtow to it you're a scum who will burn in hell for all eternity."

And Mr. Chick was the epitome of a virulently intolerant *expletive deleted*hole.

You win one internets for the day.

[mellestad]

I've never read anything about the man himself--was he really like that, or was it just his shtick?

[Perd Hapley]

The people his comics appealed to didn't need convincing because they already believed and to people on the fence they looked ridiculous.

I question that. There's a lady at our church that leaves Chick tracts in the lobby, and in the pews. She was, at the very least, a fence-sitter at one time, and possibly involved in some of the things Chick would call witchcraft. I don't know if she, herself, came to the faith through his ministry, though.

I keep an eye out for her tracts, and take them home and throw them away, as I also fear they're more hindrance than help, even if they do help people, occasionally. I usually read them before I toss them. His anti-Catholic tracts, or the ones I've read, had a lot more citations of Catholic authorities than I would have expected (several, instead of zero).

I'm skeptical of Bible tracts, and not just Chick's, as I find it hard to imagine anyone being influenced in any deep way by what is essentially junk mail. That being said, tracts have worked for people, so I might be wrong. I wouldn't want to be so intolerant as to think someone else might see them differently than I do. 

[RevDisk]

He caused more harm to his religion than help. The people his comics appealed to didn't need convincing because they already believed and to people on the fence they looked ridiculous.

It's like the maybe-crazy guys on a street corner soap box shouting with a mega-phone. They're only appealing to the people who already believe what they believe and to everyone else they're just obnoxious.

Pretty much. Though I was not previously aware of apparently common certain biases still are. It's a shockingly clear indicator that someone is completely off their gourd if you hear them say "the Papacy" and it's not a news article about the Pope. For some unknown reason, it's popular to leave Chick Tracts in laundrymats and I've been to many over the years. I recall a couple tracts saying that Catholics created the Nazis, the Commies and Islam. I'm sure he published a number of tracts that accuse them of more typical old Jewish stereotypes or whatnot, but I could be wrong.

My absolute hands down favorite was anti D&D tracks. Dude. If you don't want pre-marital sex, you should be promoting D&D as a safer alternative. I'm not sure of the theological underpinings of the alleged King James superiority, but it seems hilarious. Ditto that Satanists are behind anything that the Catholics haven't gotten around to yet.



Honestly, Chick reminded me more of certain branches of Islam. Not in the religious intolerance, but moreso that absolutely EVERYTHING is an extremely improbable conspiracy. Against your particular branch of religion, specifically.

[Perd Hapley]

Pretty much. Though I was not previously aware of apparently common certain biases still are. It's a shockingly clear indicator that someone is completely off their gourd if you hear them say "the Papacy" and it's not a news article about the Pope. For some unknown reason, it's popular to leave Chick Tracts in laundrymats and I've been to many over the years. I recall a couple tracts saying that Catholics created the Nazis, the Commies and Islam. I'm sure he published a number of tracts that accuse them of more typical old Jewish stereotypes or whatnot, but I could be wrong.

My absolute hands down favorite was anti D&D tracks. Dude. If you don't want pre-marital sex, you should be promoting D&D as a safer alternative. I'm not sure of the theological underpinings of the alleged King James superiority, but it seems hilarious. Ditto that Satanists are behind anything that the Catholics haven't gotten around to yet.

You're only saying that because your Dungeon Master told you to.

[RevDisk]

You're only saying that because your Dungeon Master told you to.

https://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp

If it was a rather attractive 80's goth chick giving the orders, ayep, probably would.   

[Ron]

I've never seen a Jack Chick tract that fits the definition of hateful.

He definitely had some odd ideas about various subjects but he wanted everyone to come to Christ and be saved. Homosexuals, the illuminatee, sorcerers, witches, Roman Catholics everyone, even the lizard people.

Unless you are a social justice warrior who thinks everyone who opposes your particular life philosophy is a "hater" this misuse of the word hate makes no sense.

The church has bigger problems than some pamphleteer who takes unpopular stands/positions, is conspiratorial and speaks to the less sophisticated.

[Perd Hapley]

I've never seen a Jack Chick tract that fits the definition of hateful.

He definitely had some odd ideas about various subjects but he wanted everyone to come to Christ and be saved. Homosexuals, the illuminatee, sorcerers, witches, Roman Catholics everyone, even the lizard people.

Unless you are a social justice warrior who thinks everyone who opposes your particular life philosophy is a "hater" this misuse of the word hate makes no sense.

The church has bigger problems than some pamphleteer who takes unpopular stands/positions, is conspiratorial and speaks to the less sophisticated.

My only quibble with that is that the bad guys in his tracts were often a very unflattering caricature. Or at least that is my recollection. Then again, maybe I expect too much nuance from a comic book.

In any case, the important thing now is that we heap unlimited hatred on Mr. Chick. You can't stop the virtue signal.

[Ron]

and let me reiterate that Mike conflating Chick with Phelps is just character assassination and isn't based in reality, but prejudice.

It's the same as saying Trump is Hitler!

It's a logical fallacy, a faulty analogy.

It's also an appeal to emotion, we all "hate" Phelps.

[roo_ster]

I'll quote myself, as some have modeled the phenomenon in such an apt manner:

The ridicule he attracted from non-Christian types and some Christians was icing on the cake.  He and his obviously ate up the hate directed at them and used it to fuel their efforts.

I think real problem many folk had with Chick was that he broke the Neo-American Zeroth Commandment:
"Thou shalt have no confidence in your faith and proclaim it boldly."

And Chick's comics vis a vis some of his targets are perfectly sensible, if you take a moment to be open-minded and see it from Chick's perspective. 
1. If your theology indicates that Roman Catholicism / The Masons / Whatever are leading people astray or enemies of Christianity.
2. If you think that theology and what folk believes matters, as in "their very soul is at stake" matters.
3. Then using impassioned rhetoric is justified when preaching the gospel and warning against the snares set by Satan.

He caused more harm to his religion than help. The people his comics appealed to didn't need convincing because they already believed and to people on the fence they looked ridiculous.

It's like the maybe-crazy guys on a street corner soap box shouting with a mega-phone. They're only appealing to the people who already believe what they believe and to everyone else they're just obnoxious.

Yeah, not so much.  It doesn't appeal to you and folks like you.  Not everyone is like you.  And they don't do much for me, though I enjoy examining the theology presented in both and have been known to strike up conversations with the street corner evangelists.  OTOH, I have seen their efficacy in other situations and with other people. 

[RevDisk]

I've never seen a Jack Chick tract that fits the definition of hateful.

He definitely had some odd ideas about various subjects but he wanted everyone to come to Christ and be saved. Homosexuals, the illuminatee, sorcerers, witches, Roman Catholics everyone, even the lizard people.

Unless you are a social justice warrior who thinks everyone who opposes your particular life philosophy is a "hater" this misuse of the word hate makes no sense.

The church has bigger problems than some pamphleteer who takes unpopular stands/positions, is conspiratorial and speaks to the less sophisticated.

"Some odd ideas" is a very polite stretch. He engaged in frequent outright lies. Admittedly, once caught fragrantly lying, he would sometimes discontinue a particular lie. He used to claim that satanists sacrificed twice the annual homicide rate, every year.

I will give him credit that he did indeed want everyone to be "saved". He expressly defined "saved" as converting to his particular variant of Christianity. Being a Christian didn't necessarily count as being 'saved'. He viewed a large number of variants or denominations of Christianity, people already saved, as not being saved. That reduces the claim that he was solely interested in converting people to Christianity. He saw only his own very narrow version of Christianity as legitimate and a significant number of Christians as not being Christians because they didn't heed all the more minor theological aspects he saw as the One Truth Faith.

The man did stand by his principles, I would admit that. Ironic that I suspect that such pride in his convictions likely lead him astray from Christ's actual messages. Admitted, I'm not an expert.

[K Frame]

Why don't you actually read my posts instead of inventing what you want to see?

I didn't say that Chick and Phelps were equal.

I said they were toward the same side of the spectrum.

There IS a difference between what I said, and what you claimed, even if you can't,  or don't want, to see it.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[mellestad]

I'll quote myself, as some have modeled the phenomenon in such an apt manner:
I think real problem many folk had with Chick was that he broke the Neo-American Zeroth Commandment:
"Thou shalt have no confidence in your faith and proclaim it boldly."

And Chick's comics vis a vis some of his targets are perfectly sensible, if you take a moment to be open-minded and see it from Chick's perspective. 
1. If your theology indicates that Roman Catholicism / The Masons / Whatever are leading people astray or enemies of Christianity.
2. If you think that theology and what folk believes matters, as in "their very soul is at stake" matters.
3. Then using impassioned rhetoric is justified when preaching the gospel and warning against the snares set by Satan.


Yeah, not so much.  It doesn't appeal to you and folks like you.  Not everyone is like you.  And they don't do much for me, though I enjoy examining the theology presented in both and have been known to strike up conversations with the street corner evangelists.  OTOH, I have seen their efficacy in other situations and with other people. 

It isn't meant for "folks like me" at all. It's aimed at people who already believe in an evangelical fire and brimstone thing. I don't think that crowd needs more encouragement to believe.

I don't think it's effective at conversion, is all. Maybe it's effective at keeping believers cautious of certain topics--I'd buy that. If you believe in the fire and brimstone stuff and then -insert Chick Tract topic- says a thing will also lead down that path it might keep you from doing something.

Your Neo-American Zeroth Commandment is spot on. If people (in mainstream America) act like their religion is real it comes off as crazy (in a literal, needs mental healthcare, way). That's an interesting commentary on religion in America.